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Blackburn boss Ince continues to bargain hunt
2:00pm Thursday 2nd October 2008
Comments (45)
PAUL Ince has already started his ‘bargain hunt’ ahead of the January sales – but admits a long-list of targets is suddenly becoming a lot shorter.
The realistic Rovers’ boss knows limited resources at Ewood Park leave him ‘wheeling and dealing’ in the transfer market but believes the last couple of weeks have eased some of his headache.
While Blackburn are believed to still be chasing more competition for the right-wing berth when the January window reopens, an emergence of his squad players has diminished Ince’s need for wholesale changes.
The last two wins, at Everton and Newcastle, have demonstrated the strength in depth already at Ewood and could prove a weight off chairman John Williams’ purse strings.
Martin Olsson, Carlos Villanueva, Matt Derbyshire, Danny Simpson and Tugay have all leapt into their manager’s minds for selection, after patiently biding their time, with Ince admitting his current options are looking better all the time.
Rovers will continue to run the rule over a string of triallists who have been put through their paces in Lancashire but will now need to make a real impression on Ince before he is prepared to take the plunge.
Ince said: “At this club we have to be looking at bargain players. We can’t go out and buy players for £10-15 million, we just can’t do that.
“So we have to look for another Samba or another Nelsen. Keith Andrews has come in and done ever so well and we will be looking in January.
“When you have triallists you always have a long-list. But at the moment, the way the guys have been playing that long-list becomes a short-list.
“It does not mean we don’t need to strengthen because we still need to build but for the ones who hadn’t been involved to go out and perform like that was exceptional.”
Constantly linked with top European talent, Ince has warned Rovers won’t be able to compete with some ahead of the coming scramble for players.
But he insists the foundations have already been laid by what is in place at Ewood Park.
He said: “Villa spend £60m, Spurs £60-70m, but we can’t do that. It is hard but you have to try and find bargain players. We spent 4.2m Euros on Grella as a midfield player.
“Everton spend £15m on one. It shows the vast difference between the money we have got.
“The centre halfs looked absolutely solid, and we have a decent squad here but we have to keep improving it.
“If we keep performing like we have been it is great because it gives me a headache and that is what you want.”
Your Say YourBlackburn Citizen
doc, Clitheroe says...
3:59pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Why do rovers not have the resources?
With the big TV money, gate receipts are no longer the main source of income at a Premier football club.
So why should blackburn suffer so much more than other clubs.
OK, some clubs have wealth benfactors, but as Paddy Mac says, we have done some shrewd business in the past,
but we are constantly told there is no money.
And we just accept it.
The club is just not releasing the funds because, at the minute, it doesn't need to.
And we are all being brain washed into thinking this is just the way it is at Blackburn ..
Hopefully a decent buyer will come in soon and release the tight purse strings.
We have made some great finds recently in the transfer market, but constantly buying (loaning) unknowns,
lower league players is eventually going to take its toll on the quality of our squad.
Hughes knew it, that's why he left.
You might be able to kid some of them, but sooner or later the fans are going to figure this one out too.
ossy rover, oswaldtwistle says...
4:00pm Thu 2 Oct 08
if you are to read the reports in most papers a lot of average players are now getting £60k per week (or more) at other clubs, and those clubs are suffering because of it newcastle and west ham for example.
at a guess i expect that RSC is our top earner and he must be over the £50k mark.
a few others around the £40K
the rest £20 to £30K.
it doesnt take long for that kind of money to eat into any cash that you may have.
in some respects this cash credit slump may be just what a team like rovers need it may just start bringing other clubs down to our financial level.
keep the faith
Fred Storm, says...
4:02pm Thu 2 Oct 08
As ever shrewdly managed at the top
Up the Rovers!
bed and breakfast man !, dewsbury says...
4:24pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
4:26pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Ossy don't forget the that two of the biggest wage earners left the payroll in the summer so given the signings to date (plus the £5m for Sparky £3m trust bonus) we have not spent anywhere near the incoming cash and Sparky was supposed to have a £10m kitty to start with. I can't see how we have not got a big kitty left but it may be better to keep the powder dry unless there is a problem until the summer.
Rayzer and 03 sure know how to keep a low profile in Claruts condom week!
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
Grey Rover 2, Blackpool says...
4:28pm Thu 2 Oct 08
RoverDownSouth, Ipswich says...
4:28pm Thu 2 Oct 08
I have faith with the job that our board is doing. I would rather our model than the model that Mike Ashley said he inherited at Newcastle with massive debts and all the money coming in already spent.
Unfortunately our small crowds also make us less attractive than other clubs to be bought by rich individuals or consortiums. Again look at Newcastle. Because they can command gates of 50,000 plus every home game plus a massive away following there is lots of potential for revenue realisation from the add on ventures off the football pitch.
We all now the geographical and logistical problems we face in filling our ground. If we could get capacity every week then it would make us much more attractive to a rich investor. But unless we have a sudden and massive population increase (say if they discovered oil under the town hall!!!) then we do brilliantly to survive as we do.
nevad, Blackburn says...
4:40pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
4:41pm Thu 2 Oct 08
comment_6871895_full wrote:Grey - you like John Williams seem to have already forgotten last season.
John Williams is doing a great job running this club. It isn't all Sky
money. Having having to balance big overheads against low gate receipts
can't be easy. Rovers had the early-bird offer for season tickets so
those that bought are still getting excellent value for a club this
size. When JW upped the walk-on prices it must have been a very tough
call for him, but he has to balance the books. To spend the big amounts
some would like the club would have to go into the sort of debt that
could land it in deep trouble.
5 Years to late mind but they finally said they would reduce prices 25% and put a £1m aside from the new TV deal. It was such a success that the £1m was not needed and Rovers gates where up some 20% or so for a better atmosphere.
So it's hardly brain surgery to think it worked so lets hold prices firm or say another 5% reduction especially in a credit crunch. Given we did not use the £1m last year lets go for it and fill Ewood.
But no - we put prices up 10% and it looks from the early gates (net of the big followings except Fulham) that it is mainly early bird STH's and the others are rejecting the move again.
I just can't believe he is repeating the same mistakes. All he has to do is fill Ewood - the rest of his job is a doddle.
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
Matt.., says...
4:43pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Trev Manchester, Manchester says...
5:15pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Finger Bang, Blackburn says...
5:34pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Matt.. wrote:Do you think John Williams / the board / the trustees are keeping the money for themselves?
It really bugs me when some fans are so defensive of the board at times like these. I do think that Williams etc have done a good job but some over exagerate. I don't accept for a second that all the money from transfers etc can have gone on wages already. So the only other answers could be that there were big debts from before summer or that money is not being spent until there has been a take over. If it's the former then the idea that we are so good at keeping the books balanced can't be true. It's a paradox for the club to be in debt to the point that we can't spend transfer cash at the same time as having no or a small overdraft. If it's the latter then why do the owners inject the 3 million but not allow for internally generated cash to be spent? Something doesn't add up.
I don't know if you already know this (I'm guessing you don't) but Rovers have to publish their finances. These are available for the princely sum of a quid from companies house. You can then see where all the money goes to, just like you could for last season etc.
When you do look at the finances you see what a great job John Williams does, and why people defend him, and you'd also see where all the money goes. It's all publicly available.
People tend to look at it simplistically though and say "we sold him and got so much for that so we must have so much". That's not the way it works though, there are loads of other factors that come into it (wages being a big one).
Don't take my word for it though, go and spend a quid and take a look for yourself.
wildrover, Bermuda says...
5:35pm Thu 2 Oct 08
hail!PineappleHead!, Singapore says...
6:11pm Thu 2 Oct 08
being a town club, you do not have a huge fan base to begin with and i feel, rather than to expand the fan base, rovers are trying to retain it from being eroded... hence, the gate reductions to help keep the fans coming to ewood...
i don't think our fan base will change massively or sell a lot more shirts if we had beckham... LA Galaxy didnt sell more shirts after the beckham hype dies... but we do need to keep our current stars, play attractive football and get results to even talk about expanding our fan base...
if you do the maths, 60k pounds a week x 52 in a year, u pay ard 3 mil plus a year for say RSC's wages... plus vince's transfer of 4 mil and king carlos if we keep him for another 5 mil... how much $$ we have left less other wages is pretty obvious...
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
6:18pm Thu 2 Oct 08
1)Well we have a fully paid for stadium with no debt unlike Arsenal etc.
2)He has to say thank you to Sky,Setanta,BBC etc for a £40m cheque under the new TV deal.
3)He is gauranteed £5m gate receipts from diehard Rovers fans whatever.
4)When relegated Jack Walker said here's £30m support to get us back.
5)He picked "no brainer" fans first choices Sparky, Shearer (declined)and then Ince as manager.
5) The Walker trust give him £3m extra bonus to spend.
6) We get bonus.£5m compensation for Hughes.
7)5 years too late he sees Ewood is half empty and reduces prices 25% and puts £1m aside from new TV deal. It is not needed as fans respond and 20% increase gate generates more than £1m extra as well as improved atmosphere.
His only tough job is to fill Ewood and even when it has worked he is daft enough not to continue the policy and increase prices 10% in a credit crunch and now gates are declining again. Simple maths from the last statutory accounts (as you say) plus events since point to a hugh chunk of transfer cash which should still be available. Perhaps it is? Ince is simply saying he will not blow £15 fee plus the wages on one player. Unless it's the new Tugay I agree but lord knows why people think it's down to Williams.
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
andrewmg86, devon says...
6:21pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Also, we have a significant amount of debt still that we are paying back slowly. The Duff money only reduced that to half.
People need to wake up, this isnt the Jack Walker days anymore, you might want us to go and spend 15 million on a player but dont complain when we go bust. Yes, certain clubs who dont have a big financial backer have trioed to chase the rest of the pack with spending this summer aka bolton but they will be in trouble of doing a leeds if not careful.
The 10 million promised to Hughes was only in the media, and a lot of the bentley money went out to Arsenal. Also bearing in mind we need to keep back 5 million for Villanueva when we buy him.
jeppo, huddersfield says...
7:22pm Thu 2 Oct 08
jeppo, huddersfield says...
7:22pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Coach Taylor, Dillon says...
9:09pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Longtimerover, Clitheroe says...
10:09pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Coach Taylor wrote:Having read some of these replies I have to say that I'm relieved that it's John Williams and Co who are running the Club.
Ozzy Rover you can stick your faith where the sun doesnt shine. The board are small time and the fans buy all the rubbish about us having no money. We got big bucks for Bentley. Where has that money gone?
VOLKSWAGON, York says...
11:01pm Thu 2 Oct 08
Secondly, most of the players that we have sold for inflated fees have hardly set the world alight elsewhere - I'd say for every 10 'named' players that we have sold, eight showed their best form whilst at Ewood, and that includes Shearer.
Jarred, Bristol says...
11:03pm Thu 2 Oct 08
He has brought in like-minded people as managers. And he and Ince will save any money they have until they have a player or players who are worth it and who they are sure of.
To be frank, the fact that Williams doesn't bow to fan pressure to finance big signings is what makes him the best chairman in the Premiership.
We do have the worst resources of any Premiership club. That's why he have to manage what we have the best.
And Williams does that superbly.
Jarred, Bristol says...
11:05pm Thu 2 Oct 08
ossy rover, oswaldtwistle says...
8:30am Fri 3 Oct 08
16 first team players average wage £35K per week for 52 weeks gives you approx £29M, thats a deficit of £17M before you start.
add on other staff wages, ground upkeep, training ground upkeep, policing, transport, hotels, etc etc then you could probably double the £17M.
whether we like it or not rovers have to pay the going rate for players salaries or they just wont come.
its not the transfer value that stops us signing players its the salary attached to it, in theory if you buy a player you should be able to recoup the money if you are to sell him. (that doesnt always work grabbi, davies for example)also you can make a profit on players such as bentley.
there are average players out there getting paid £60K+ a week at other clubs.
rovers obviously have some kind of wages cap, and sometimes i think its a minor miracle that we can even attract players or even keep the players we do have happy.
last season the club announced the salaries to income was running at above 85% so to be honest there is nothing new in the above report.
keep the faith
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
9:08am Fri 3 Oct 08
But do you understand after last seasons price reduction success why we did not continue with it? I think filling Ewood has been JW's only real tough task and he has failed at it - even this summer putting prices up 10% again after the evidence last season that it worked. He even got his £1m back so why not continue it this year?
Sorry but for me he will always be the man who came in when we had a 28,000 average and will forever be known as the "Man Who Emptied Ewood"
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
jonnyvontonk, London says...
9:09am Fri 3 Oct 08
How many of you actually have accounting backgrounds and/or experience of running a Premier League football club?
ripleywonder, Chester says...
9:30am Fri 3 Oct 08
jonnyvontonk wrote:I agree with jonnyvontonk. There are so many morons in the rovers fanbase it is untrue. How do you know what rovers financial situation is? We are a very small club, with a tiny fanbase, and tiny worldwide merchandising. Subsequently, ever penny has to be counted and accounted for. All those who criticise the legend and great Chairman that is John Williams should be ashamed. I suppose these are the same fans who think Morten Gamst Pedersen is being harshly treated by Ince. T*ts.
Good to see so much informed opinion and statistics being thrown around . . . How many of you actually have accounting backgrounds and/or experience of running a Premier League football club?
jeppo, huddersfield says...
9:36am Fri 3 Oct 08
ripleywonder, Chester says...
9:41am Fri 3 Oct 08
jeppo wrote:Jeppo you idiot. Jonnyvontonk was obviously defending rovers and saying they are a great run club, and all those slagging our club financially have no knowledge or grounding! Go back to shagging badgers in huddersfield
jonnyvontonk, you don't need accounting background to see that rovers is a very well run club, its bloomin obvious, and ridiculous to say otherwise. Morst, when a team like rovers wins the premier league title, attandances tend to go up. When a team like rovers gets relegated, attendances tend to go down. Its a bit harsh to point the finger at JW on that one! One last point (for now lol!) is that if we were to spend the bentley money on a player of say £10m, what would his wages be, and how could we sustain that over the next few years, and how would it impact on any 'salary cap'?
ravinrover, blackburn says...
9:48am Fri 3 Oct 08
mike rover, essex says...
10:28am Fri 3 Oct 08
£4m on grella, £3m andrews, £2.5m Robbo, obviously we must have the £5m set aside for villueneva, so that takes Ince's spending up to near £15m.....what's the problem???
Don't tell me we have fans expecting us to throw around £10-15m on 1 player, then the wages would be rediculous, and you then get to the point where other squad members will be knocking down the door asking for the same wages.
To be fair I think it's harsh to point fingures at John Williams anyway. Is it not the owners and the club trustees that release cash for players, as oppose to the chairman?
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
10:30am Fri 3 Oct 08
Jeppo - Attendances in 2002 were still very good but then prices kept going up and we ended up with 13,000 thou vs Fulham and 18,000 vs City. Last season proved the 25% price reduction worked and cost the club nothing so why not continue it?
No Jeppo - He is the man who Emptied Ewood when funds from TV were ample to keep prices lower and fill the ground.
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
ripleywonder, Chester says...
10:42am Fri 3 Oct 08
Brown
Simpson(is he eligible)
Nelsen
Samba
Olsson
Emerton
Warnock
Villuaneva
Treacey
Roberts
Roque
ossy rover, oswaldtwistle says...
10:53am Fri 3 Oct 08
there are a whole host of reasons why its not filled.
in my time as a supporter (which is a long time) ive never known us sell out every week, even in the championship winning season.
i remember a game against west ham over the christmas period were the gate was approx 25K.
the two figures your quoting for fulham and city were they PL games?
another point about attendances is that when we play cup games in the early rounds prices are reduced £10 or £15 and we barely get 10000 on, the other week against everton the gate was approx 15000 and at least 5000 were everton fans.
even last season when prices were frozen we didnt sell out and at the majority of games there were plenty of empty seats.
get the team playing attractive attacking football consistently over a number of years is the way to increase the crowds, but if we do that then the manager becomes a wanted man, the players are coveted by other clubs, and then changes inevitably occur.
personally i think rovers are a well run club they keep thier cards close to the chest, and we still manage to give the big boys a run for thier money.
keep the faith
jeppo, huddersfield says...
12:06pm Fri 3 Oct 08
ghtfull as ever mate! Can you tell me where exactly I was criticising jonnyvontonk when I say "you don't need to be an accountant to see that rovers is a very well run club". Go back to slagging off ince & andrews mate, and show your ignorance there. To be fair though, its a decent line about badgers, I'll give you credit for that!!
jeppo, huddersfield says...
12:09pm Fri 3 Oct 08
ossy rover, oswaldtwistle says...
12:13pm Fri 3 Oct 08
you know how boredome soon kicks in, in saying the sheep will be giving a deep sigh of relief.
keep the faith
jeppo, huddersfield says...
12:18pm Fri 3 Oct 08
philboy, says...
12:24pm Fri 3 Oct 08
1. Rovers spend aprox 80% of revenue on wages, which doesn't leave much left over.
2. There never was a 10 million kitty. We could create one tomorrow of course, but that would only add to our 20 million pound debt.
3. Money raised in the summer, minus purchases, leaves aprox 10 million for transfers. Although half of that is being held back to buy Carlos and the rest will be used on "bargains".
philboy, says...
12:26pm Fri 3 Oct 08
1. Rovers spend aprox 80% of revenue on wages, which doesn't leave much left over.
2. There never was a 10 million kitty. We could create one tomorrow of course, but that would only add to our 20 million pound debt.
3. Money raised in the summer, minus purchases, leaves aprox 10 million for transfers. Although half of that is being held back to buy Carlos and the rest will be used on "bargains".
Finger Bang, Blackburn says...
12:35pm Fri 3 Oct 08
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker wrote:Qualified chartered accountant eh? But one who just spends all day on net doing nowt!
JonnyVon - I am a qualified Chartered Accountant and have spent many years putting business plans together. I also have 30 years more history of Rovers than John Williams - is that OK?
Jeppo - Attendances in 2002 were still very good but then prices kept going up and we ended up with 13,000 thou vs Fulham and 18,000 vs City. Last season proved the 25% price reduction worked and cost the club nothing so why not continue it?
No Jeppo - He is the man who Emptied Ewood when funds from TV were ample to keep prices lower and fill the ground.
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
No doubt you are an astronaut too. And a cowboy.
As for John Williams - I know I keep saying it but it's weird how absolutely everyone within football has nothing but praise for him, but some numpty on the net thinks he's the worst thing to ever happen to Rovers (even though you are a chartered accountant. And an astronaut).
ossy rover, oswaldtwistle says...
1:19pm Fri 3 Oct 08
'can i be an astronaut'
lol
in saying that i have been spaced out a few times so maybe its not as glamourous as first thought.
some say im spaced out whilst adding to the debate on here too.
keep the faith
keep the faith
Morst the 88th min Heartbreaker, Accrington says...
4:03pm Fri 3 Oct 08
Ossy - yes indeed we have been here before and Burnley will beat us again before we will ever agree!
30 YEARS AND COUNTING!
jeppo, huddersfield says...
5:19pm Fri 3 Oct 08
JANUARY SHOPPING: Paul Ince
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- Kevin Gallacher life story part 2: Growing up was tough as grandson of late great Patsy
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Paddy Mac, Darwen says...
3:29pm Thu 2 Oct 08