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Cafe takes stand against cigarette ban

10:15pm Friday 3rd August 2007

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By Samantha Shale »

NON-SMOKERS have been banned from sitting outside a town centre cafe as smokers hit back in the war over lighting up in public.

The move came as smokers hit back in the war over lighting up in public.

The owners of CJ's Cafe and Milkbar in Darwen have launched their protest because smokers cannot puff away indoors since the nationwide ban began on July 1.

Jacqueline Hartley-Barnes and Christine Hartley-Pickup ask non-smokers to take a seat inside the Duckworth Street cafe and request that they leave the premises if they refuse.

The 58-year-old twin sisters, who have been smoking for 45 years, have even put up a sign explaining that the rules have been introduced because they disagree with the ban.

Pro-smoking organisation Forest said it could understand why the sisters had taken a stand but disagreed with their efforts.

A spokesperson for anti-smoking campaign group ASH urged non-smokers to boycott the cafe.

Christine said: "They have got their no smoking law, this is our little bit of a protest.

"We said we'll abide by the law, we are keeping them segregated.

"We have had two complaints but we are not bothered whether they come or whether they go because we are always full.

"I have even had a non-smoker buy a packet of fags and put them in front of them so they could sit outside. I said you don't smoke' and he said I like the food' but I said I don't care, you have to sit inside'."

But a 29-year-old Darwen mum who went to CJ's with her sister and three children said it was unfair they could not sit outside.

The woman, who did not want to be named, said: "It was really sunny so we wanted to sit outside and eat and we had too much stuff with the two prams for us to be able to go inside.

"We weren't stopping anyone else from sitting down, there were plenty of other seats, but she said we had to move.

"We got up and left. The cafe lost paying customers for no good reason. It was ridiculous and not very good business sense."

But Christine said their rule protected the children and said she and her sister didn't care if non-smokers went elsewhere as 90 per cent of their customers were smokers.

She said: "Do they want their children in a smoking environment? If I served them and sat down and started smoking in front of the kids what would they do?

"If there are tables free it still doesn't matter because if a smoker comes past and there are none free they'll go right past. I'm not bothered if they go somewhere else - we are just trying to accommodate everyone."

Jacqueline said their stand also safeguarded the health of non-smokers: "The government made this an issue for health reasons so if you have got a non-smoker sat outside and there's smokers sat outside surrounding them that's no good," she said.

"Most of them don't object to moving - they realise this is a law which shouldn't have come in."

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Your Say YourTelegraph

smokingbanstinks.co. uk, bolton says...
10:58pm Fri 3 Aug 07

well done to them,hope smokers support the with their custom.

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Illegal Regal, Blackburn says...
11:01pm Fri 3 Aug 07

Well done to the proprietors of these premises. Nice to see the tables turned for once in this era of the authorities banning everything they don't like!

People fought a war to safeguard freedom of choice in this country - let's see it continue to be exercised.

www.freedom2choose.c
o.uk


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mahler dane, Bristol says...
1:13am Sat 4 Aug 07

We are doing the same thing in our smoking ghetto (formerly the courtyard garden). Non-smokers and particularly those of the bigoted variety are no longer welcome in our pub at all and particularly unwelcome outside. We will now be concentrating all of our investment on improving conditions for the smokers. They are our loyal customers and they are being discrimnated against by this ridiculous prohibition. Non-smokers always had a choice - they could go to a non-smoking pub or restaurant. These bigots have used lies and faux-science to push a ban that is unnecessary and unreasonable. Well done CJ's and thank you for standing up for true British values.

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Col, Falkirk says...
1:33am Sat 4 Aug 07

You lot are really on worth me typing one word to describe your views - IDIOTIC!

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artois65, darwen says...
6:56am Sat 4 Aug 07

last year cj's only had a couple of tables outside their cafe now there's probably 8 to 10 tables in a cordoned off area.a few questions arise about this.
1. does this area belong to the cafe premises ?
2.if not have they received permission from the council to use the area?

3.if the area does belong to the premises did they contribute to the repaving of it ?

oh and yes i'll be sending an email to the council with the same questions.

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janie, darwen says...
8:01am Sat 4 Aug 07

well all i can say is you you moan when sat around smokers and now your moaning that they have thier own seating area! get a life this cafe is only trying to accomodate everyone, if you are a non smoker and want good quality food then you will sit inside and eat besides is there another cafe that sits you outside in the sun in darwen? i dont see one! im a non smoker.

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paul, wales..ex blackburn says...
8:05am Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done to these ladies.I,m a non smoker but I,m fed up of the anti smoking brigade looking down at folk from ther supposed moral high ground.And as for "Artois65".while your trying to stir trouble with the council,ask the government why they are using millions of pounds of public money for advertising their campaign on Tv and radio and the press

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Lt Col, Benson in Hedges says...
9:16am Sat 4 Aug 07

Col wrote:
You lot are really on worth me typing one word to describe your views - IDIOTIC!
Col, if you'd have just typed one word you might have made more sense. You really need to find better things to do at half one on a saturday morning. still that's Falkirk for ya!

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B, Blackburn says...
9:28am Sat 4 Aug 07

I agree with CJs actions, its their business and they can do as they like. Most non smokers will now begin to feel what it like to have the boot on the other foot, its your turn to be discriminated against, if you dont like it then go and fill the establishments that are now feeling the pinch and going out of business due to the ban. Once again, well done CJs, hope many more follow your lead.

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LAURA, blackburn says...
9:39am Sat 4 Aug 07

How sad is this,i do believe it is the government who decided the no smoking ban,so if you smokers want to stink and die a slow painful death do it quietly .Realy cant understand you

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Smoking Killed My Dad, says...
10:10am Sat 4 Aug 07

My mum and her mates stopped going to CJ's Cafe/Milk Bar before the no smoking ban because it was always full of ciggy smoke in the cafe. Probably CJ's won't lose many customers as most of them are already smokers.

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Sherlock Holmes, Blackburn says...
10:13am Sat 4 Aug 07

Artois65- You have my backing.
Presumably you could smoke in this cafe before the ban--Who on earth would want a fry up breathing in someone elses smoke. This article suggests to me that this is a struggling concern and not one I will be going to.

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Louise, Accrington says...
10:15am Sat 4 Aug 07

Hi, im not from that area but well done to them!! Non smokers moan and moan about smoking near them now there is a ban they are still moaning! what do these people want, if they are so bothered why do they still make bloody cigarettes? you cant please everyone unfortunatly but again well done you stick to your guns. xx

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steve norris, accrington says...
10:23am Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done CJs,the non-smokers won`t be in such a rush to sit outside in the winter, wereas us smokers will have no choice.As for Laura from Blackburns comment, this government spend millions supporting tobacco growers. If the cigs are so bad, why are they allowing them to be sold ? answer,they take millions in tax.Alcohol is far more damaging to society. You don`t get people smoking a ciggie and smashing someone over the head with the packet, or being unable to drive because they`ve had a fag with lunch. Just watch, next it will be alcohol.

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TheBigYin, says...
10:39am Sat 4 Aug 07

Oh well done ladies, it's about time more people took a stand like this against the anti-smoking Nazis who take every opportunity to make smokers feel like second class citizens.

freedom2choose.co.uk

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Smoke gets up my nose, says...
10:58am Sat 4 Aug 07

The 58-year-old twin sisters, who have been smoking for 45 years, I'm surprised the twins have enough breath in their bodies after 45 years smoking to be able to run a cafe.

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Charlie, UK says...
11:28am Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done to these two ladies, I carnt see what the problem is. Anti smokers wanted smoke free property, they have got what they wanted, but they are still not satisfied the want the outside area as well, WELL TOUGH. Youve got your smoke free inside now stop in it

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JStewart, NE England says...
11:42am Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done to these two ladies. They are simply accommodating their smoking customers. If tables are not reserved for smokers outside and those tables are filled by people who could sit inside then where can the smokers go? Having been denied the choice by this Government to accommodate both types of customer indoor they have just found another way of doing so.



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steve, uk says...
11:46am Sat 4 Aug 07

fantastic idea, well done ladies

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JH, Yorkshire says...
11:48am Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done ladies for sticking to your principles. When antis are 'persecuted' they certainly don't like the cold steel up 'em! Now they are having a taste of the medicine they dole out to smokers!
freedom2choose.co.uk

Hasn't this government helped people to get along well and created an inclusive society?!!!

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Smoking Killed My Dad, 735-746 says...
11:58am Sat 4 Aug 07

Don't pull the wool over our eyes JH-Yorkshire, JStewart-Northern England, steve-UK, and some of the others. You are one and the same person aren't you? Do you like speaking to yourself?

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mgm colne smoker, colne says...
12:00pm Sat 4 Aug 07

all the non smokers who moan should just take a minute to sit back and think a little if everybody started to stop smoking what would the government do to make up the massive tax losses other taxes would hve to rise to make up the deficit then the non smokers would have something else to moan about they say smoking is not healthy but it is my choice to smoke and i pay for the privilige ......

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Smoking Killed My Dad, says...
12:04pm Sat 4 Aug 07

mgm colne smoker.....If everyone stopped smoking the government would save billions in not needing to treat patients with smoke related illnesses.

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Eddie d, Scotland says...
12:16pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Well done.It is time more establishments followed the action by the Cafe.The Anti-Smoking Brigade can't have it both ways. Will these people complaining be outside in the winter when Smokers are forced outside, I doubt it,if they want the sunshine they can sit in their back garden.

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Smoking Killed My Dad, says...
12:21pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Eddie d, Scotland....stop talking to yourself.

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Mogster, Ewood says...
12:40pm Sat 4 Aug 07

I'm a non-smoker but I can see both sides of the argument. My logical conclusion is that this cafe may struggle to survive in the winter because the owners have alienated the non-smokers during the summer by not even allowing them to sit outside and the people who like a cigarettte with their food will stay at home to eat. A grand gesture or dangerous tactics... or both?

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Rick S, London says...
12:42pm Sat 4 Aug 07

I wish more places would do the same. I was sitting outside the pub a couple of weeks ago and was just about to light a cigarette when two blokes plonked themselves down at my table with their food. Being the nice, considerate chap that I am, I didn't smoke while they were eating their food (and they took an eternity) so I ended up finally having my ciggy with about a millimetre of beer left in my glass and about 5 minutes left before it was time to go back to work. They had a whole "smokfree" pub to eat their meal in, while I had nowhere else to go and had to put up with the stink of their filthy food. Selfish eaters eh? What can you do? ;)

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Rich, Blackburn says...
1:10pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Smoking Killed My Dad wrote:
mgm colne smoker.....If everyone stopped smoking the government would save billions in not needing to treat patients with smoke related illnesses.
Income in duty on tobacco £10-12 billion per year.
Cost of treating smoking related illness £1.5 billion per year.
If everyone gave up smoking, the NHS would collapse.
Well done to the ladies for doing what they think is right.

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pete45, blackburn says...
1:33pm Sat 4 Aug 07

its a well known fact that most smokers come from areas of high unemployment there fore don't contribute to the £10-12 billion of duty per year.

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Smoking Killed My Dad, says...
1:44pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Rich wrote:
Smoking Killed My Dad wrote: mgm colne smoker.....If everyone stopped smoking the government would save billions in not needing to treat patients with smoke related illnesses.
Income in duty on tobacco £10-12 billion per year. Cost of treating smoking related illness £1.5 billion per year. If everyone gave up smoking, the NHS would collapse. Well done to the ladies for doing what they think is right.
Rich, Blackburn. It is difficult to stop smoking. My dad used to smoke until it killed him. He used to cough up green, blood tinged phlegm, every morning even before he became ill through smoking. Most cigarette smokers have a morning cough and cough up phlegm even though they won't admit it.

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JStewart, NE England says...
1:44pm Sat 4 Aug 07

"Smoking Killed My Dad": last time I looked there was just one of me.
pete45: I don't know where you get your well known facts from but the treasury loses £3 billion per year from duty free tobacco otherwise it would receive £13 billion per year. If most smokers come from areas of high unemployment then who is paying the £10 billion per year tax on tobacco products? Not only are your facts wrong your post makes no sense.

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Mogster, Ewood says...
1:48pm Sat 4 Aug 07

pete45 wrote:
its a well known fact that most smokers come from areas of high unemployment there fore don't contribute to the £10-12 billion of duty per year.
Are you saying that generally smokers are poor and therefore either steal or buy illegal imported cigarettes? I'm sure I must have hold of the wrong end of the stick because that's ridiculous, but I'm just checking. If that IS what you're saying then... well it's controversial to say the least. In your reply could you quote where you get your information from?

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Jan Gibbons, Manchester says...
1:50pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Well Done to the owners of CJ's! Now the non-smokers know how we smokers feel having no choice at all.Keep up the good work ladies until sense prevails and we can all have freedom of choice!!

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
1:52pm Sat 4 Aug 07

pete45, what an ignorant and stereotypical view! If most "smokers" don't contribute the billions to subsidise the NHS who does? Is it the non-smokers? Isn't it wonderful that when people who oppose the ban get together they are the same person? It couldn't be that there are a number of people who agree with choice and that's choice for BOTH groups. Perhaps Smoking Killed My Dad works for ASH?

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Smoking Killed My Dad, 114-740 says...
1:57pm Sat 4 Aug 07

No I don't work for ASH.

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pete45, blackburn says...
1:58pm Sat 4 Aug 07

on tv in the newspapers we see a family who are not so well off(they get all the benifits going the sun newspaper earlier this week) what are they all doing errrr SMOKING!

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
2:06pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Oh right, so because people on benefits smoke, therefore everybody ona lower income must do the same? Allow me to draw a parallel, might I assume that you don't smoke pete45? If this si the case, then surely all non smokers are ingnorant and rely on stereotyping in order to attempt to give their argument weight! See it's not nice, dress it up how you want Pete, smokers subsidise the NHS, we pay our taxes as you do, then we pay a further 8billion or so. So when you next have to have medical treatment give us smokers a thought who have paid for it for you!

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PETE45, blackburn says...
2:16pm Sat 4 Aug 07

nat ins contribution pays for 73% of the nhs costs, so as someone who works i have paid for my own medical treatment not the smokers who you say have paid for bit

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pintpot, Darwen says...
2:20pm Sat 4 Aug 07

artois65 wrote:
last year cj\\\'s only had a couple of tables outside their cafe now there\\\'s probably 8 to 10 tables in a cordoned off area.a few questions arise about this.
1. does this area belong to the cafe premises ?
2.if not have they received permission from the council to use the area?

3.if the area does belong to the premises did they contribute to the repaving of it ?

oh and yes i\\\'ll be sending an email to the council with the same questions.
Itotally agree with your comments not many years ago the ice cream van outside the market was stopped from putting out tables and chairs for customers.i would also like to know what the legal postion would be should anyone trip orfall over these obsticles

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
2:28pm Sat 4 Aug 07

As each division of the NHS is required to break even at the financial year-end, the service should in theory never be in deficit. However in recent years overspends have meant that, on a 'going-concern' (normal trading) basis, these conditions have been consistently, and increasingly, breached. Former Secretary of State for Health Patricia Hewitt consistently asserted that the NHS will be in balance at the end of the financial year 2007-8 however, a study by Professor Nick Bosanquet for the Reform think tank predicts a true annual deficit of nearly £7bn in 2010 so without smokers you would be looking at a projected deficit of 14billion or so, I wasn't trying to imply that we pay the lion's share, clever smokescreen though(pun intended). Despite your assertions to the contrary, there is no link between areas of high unemployment, otherwise I'm sure you would have found something to substantiate those claims, as you did with your NI figures. Still you have no response to this outrageous stereotyping, so perhaps you could be mature enough to admit it is only YOUR opinion, not based on anything other than prejudice?

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
2:32pm Sat 4 Aug 07

pintpot wrote:
artois65 wrote: last year cj\\\\\\\'s only had a couple of tables outside their cafe now there\\\\\\\'s probably 8 to 10 tables in a cordoned off area.a few questions arise about this. 1. does this area belong to the cafe premises ? 2.if not have they received permission from the council to use the area? 3.if the area does belong to the premises did they contribute to the repaving of it ? oh and yes i\\\\\\\'ll be sending an email to the council with the same questions.
Itotally agree with your comments not many years ago the ice cream van outside the market was stopped from putting out tables and chairs for customers.i would also like to know what the legal postion would be should anyone trip orfall over these obsticles
Pintpot, is the cafe inside owned by the council? Do they pay for the upkeep, do they subsidise a business that may well fail as a result of the ban? Sadly your attitude is symptomatic of some of the non-smoker's, who now having achieved their ban, will go to any petty length in order to "de-normalise" smoking. Perhaps anyone if they were to trip should question how they managed to not notice tables/chairs, perhaps they could blame the "clouds of stinking smoke"

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Mogster, Ewood says...
2:43pm Sat 4 Aug 07

PETE45 wrote:
nat ins contribution pays for 73% of the nhs costs, so as someone who works i have paid for my own medical treatment not the smokers who you say have paid for bit
When I asked for your source of information, I meant where does the idea that most smokers are unemployed and therefore don't contribute come from? And you can't just say that you saw a family on tv sometime. We already know what pays for the NHS!

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Tich, says...
2:55pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Nice one girls - give the anti's a taste of their own medicine.
freedom2choose.co.uk

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
3:04pm Sat 4 Aug 07

pete45 wrote:
on tv in the newspapers we see a family who are not so well off(they get all the benifits going the sun newspaper earlier this week) what are they all doing errrr SMOKING!
Pete, are you sure you aren't thinking of the Gallagher family? If so the show you were watching is called "Shameless" - a work of fiction! Much like that of ASH's propganda!

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steve, uk says...
3:30pm Sat 4 Aug 07

When it comes down to it there is only 1 thing I detest about the smoking ban & that's "choice" our choice to enter either a pub or restaurant which does or does not allow smoking, if you smoke go a smoking pub, if you don't then go to none smoking pub. Our right to choose has been stripped away by the EU & our own government! This effects all of of us if they do it with smoking what next?

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Simon Donald, Outside, Like a Leper says...
3:33pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Lets see more of this positive action countrywide.

Antismokers urgently need to experience what it is liked to be dumped from society. The only pity in this case is that antis are not subject to the same criminal sanctions that smokers are.

Stand up and fight - Oppose this cruel and unnecessary ban!

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
3:34pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Stev this is my bugbear in particular. I can accept non-smokers do not like the smell and find it unpleasant, but they never stood outside pubs in order to breathe in the fresh air on our streets. Surely make it as per Labour's manifesto which exempted pubs that didn't serve food and private member's clubs. Surely that would provide ample choice for both groups? A lack of compromise based on prejudice about a minority furthered by a very vocal other minority!

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StoneyD, Blackburn says...
3:37pm Sat 4 Aug 07

It doesn't matter how the government cook the books, as Rich posted earlier, smoking-related illnesses cost the NHS £1.5 per annum, the revenue from tobacco sales is around £10-12 billion. I do wish the 'antis' would stop trying to claim that smoking is a drain on national resources, at best it makes them look ill-informed.
Well done to the girls at CJ's, next time I'm in Darwen I'll stop by.

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
4:22pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Something else I'm not sure that the general public is aware of, is that ASH were consulted regarding this legislation. However there was no participation from pro-choice or pro-smoking groups. What next only listen to the BNP on immigaration and race issues!!

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JStewart, NE England says...
4:35pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Simon, more and more people are resisting this legislation which is denying business proprietors the right to run their businesses without undue interference and denies smokers the right of assembly.

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Rick S, London says...
4:52pm Sat 4 Aug 07

What I find hilarious about this whole thing is the ASH response: "A spokesperson for anti-smoking campaign group ASH urged non-smokers to boycott the cafe." I mean, how petty can these people be? While I thoroughly admire the stand the sisters are making, this whole thing is a bit of a laugh (rather like the landlord who made his non-smoking customers go outside for 10 minutes every half hour)- the funniest bit is saying that non-smokers can sit there if they are accompanied by a smoker! They're making a serious point, yes, but not really inconveniencing anyone terribly. And yet in stomp ASH, urging non-smokers to boycott the place! Is there no item so small that they haven't got to wade in attacking anybody who doesn't toe their line?

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
5:03pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Sadly Rick that is the case. None of the anti smoking lobby would even concede that smoking on an open air train platform is not harmful in any way, because for them to admit that parts of the legislation are absolutely laughable would then show their true colours. It's much like the movement for smoking in films to be considered similar to drug use. If the moving image is so influential that children merely seeing smoking will encourage them to start, then surely that argument applies to screen violence?

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JStewart, NE England says...
5:16pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Yes, it doesn't take much for ASH to show their true, uncompromising colours. They had the nerve recently to attack a publican for trying to accommodate smokers in some degree of comfort. ASH is interested only in the total prohibition of tobacco products and ostracism of smokers from society. I believe calls are mounting for their activities to be investigated because of their very close links with the pharmaceutical industry which, of course, turns a tidy profit from its nicotine cessation products.

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
5:28pm Sat 4 Aug 07

This is the crux of the issue. Why can't smoking shelter's be enclosed? Who in their right mind would enter such a structure if they didn't want to encounter smoke? But of course you see if they capitulate even a tiny bit, the fundamental flaws in their argument are exposed, ie if enlcosed smoking shelters worked, then why couldn't smoking and non-smoking venues, and all their work unravels. Their links to the pharmaceutical companies should be investigated, because NRT normally takes people a few goes, so if all 14million smokers in the UK were to quit then their NRT products would be even more profitable! It is the thin end of the wedge and when restrictions on alchol consumption are introduced (and they will be!)when Alchol Concern define bing drinking as 10 units, that does sound a lot, but when you consider that the average pint of beers is approx 3 units, then would you consider 3 pints a binge? This kind of social engineering is divisive, and then when it is dpone by an unelected groups, yes ASH you are unelected and represent an extreme view!

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DEREK UTTLEY, GREAT HARWOOD says...
5:49pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Being a 81 year old smoker, smoked since i was 12 years old ,it is now like living in cloud cuckoo land ,we now have them and us..What will you tell our brave solders giving their lives each day when they come home expecting to have a pint and a smoke in their local pubs??????they have passive bullets each and every day ,not passive smoking .they are fighting for freedom and choice
we do not have this here ,

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Mogster, Ewood says...
6:04pm Sat 4 Aug 07

I've posted a few times on this issue, (somewhere up there) hopefully constructively and a couple of times against stupid anti smoking comments which didn't make any sense. Despite my comments I am a non smoker who just wants to co-exist. I just want to add, in the interest of balance, that the smoking ban isn't about taxes, the NHS or even making people stop smoking - The smoking ban was introduced so that people who have to work indoors are not exposed to 2nd hand smoke, which contains many dangerous chemicals. It's as simple as that.

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pintpot, DARWEN says...
6:13pm Sat 4 Aug 07

ChrisW1980uk wrote:
pintpot wrote:
artois65 wrote: last year cj\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s only had a couple of tables outside their cafe now there\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s probably 8 to 10 tables in a cordoned off area.a few questions arise about this. 1. does this area belong to the cafe premises ? 2.if not have they received permission from the council to use the area? 3.if the area does belong to the premises did they contribute to the repaving of it ? oh and yes i\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ll be sending an email to the council with the same questions.
Itotally agree with your comments not many years ago the ice cream van outside the market was stopped from putting out tables and chairs for customers.i would also like to know what the legal postion would be should anyone trip orfall over these obsticles
Pintpot, is the cafe inside owned by the council? Do they pay for the upkeep, do they subsidise a business that may well fail as a result of the ban? Sadly your attitude is symptomatic of some of the non-smoker\'s, who now having achieved their ban, will go to any petty length in order to \"de-normalise\" smoking. Perhaps anyone if they were to trip should question how they managed to not notice tables/chairs, perhaps they could blame the \"clouds of stinking smoke\"
Actually i do smoke its the matter of one rule for another

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
6:25pm Sat 4 Aug 07

I'm not sure what you mean Pintpot, do you mean 1 rule for them and 1 rule for another? If so what is your proposed solution? Are you happy standing outside? if so what are your thoughts on the following story....

http://www.swindonad

vertiser.co.uk/displ

ay.var.1595721.0.0.p

hp

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ChrisW1980uk, Chester says...
6:30pm Sat 4 Aug 07

Mogster wrote:
I\'ve posted a few times on this issue, (somewhere up there) hopefully constructively and a couple of times against stupid anti smoking comments which didn\'t make any sense. Despite my comments I am a non smoker who just wants to co-exist. I just want to add, in the interest of balance, that the smoking ban isn\'t about taxes, the NHS or even making people stop smoking - The smoking ban was introduced so that people who have to work indoors are not exposed to 2nd hand smoke, which contains many dangerous chemicals. It\'s as simple as that.
Of course it isn't about NHS or taxes, because the government would not want to lose such a lucrative revenue stream. Perhaps you could explain why ASH were included as part of the policy making, yet no pro smking/pro choice group were afforded that luxury? It hasn't been proven that second hand smoke is anything more than an irritant. If the anit smokers were prepared to accept that there are elemnts of the law which are ridiculous, and that their hatred for smoking is principally based on their dislike of a smell!

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pete45, blackburn says...
7:39pm Sat 4 Aug 07

could someone please give me one benifit smoking gives you ! errrrrrrrrrrr non 1

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sandramcclung, blackburn says...
7:51pm Sat 4 Aug 07

i totally agree with the sisters i have recently given up smoking but totally respect the rights of smokers we have had enough taken away and it is good to see someone taking a stand for the smokers i love the food and cjs so smoker or no smoker i will still be coming keep it up u have my support

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pete45, blackburn says...
8:13pm Sat 4 Aug 07

ChrisW1980uk wrote:
pete45 wrote: on tv in the newspapers we see a family who are not so well off(they get all the benifits going the sun newspaper earlier this week) what are they all doing errrr SMOKING!
Pete, are you sure you aren\\\'t thinking of the Gallagher family? If so the show you were watching is called \\\"Shameless\\\" - a work of fiction! Much like that of ASH\\\'s propganda!
no not shameless but some family with 12 kids between then living in a £500 thousand house not working but claiming everthing they can get all paid for by us them who work.and both smoking!

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meg, says...
8:14pm Sat 4 Aug 07