Blackburn firm facing ruin over electricity company's mistake

Blackburn Citizen: FACING RUIN: Catherine Elliot with her fleet of ice cream vans which could be forced off the road FACING RUIN: Catherine Elliot with her fleet of ice cream vans which could be forced off the road

A FAMILY firm is facing ruin after being hit with a £60,000 electricity bill – because of a mistake by its energy provider.

Bosses at Rippleheads Ice Creams, Blackburn, said they had never missed a payment but had been left with the whopping bill because electricity giant EON fitted the wrong meter.

One Blackburn community leader said he had been left ‘gobsmacked’ at the demand and said the firm should show more responsibility when dealing with small businesses.

Rippleheads has been run from its site in Appleby Street for 10 years and even though EON officials have taken regular quarterly readings, the energy company said it had been under-charged by £60,000.

EON apologised and admitted responsibility, but said that as Rippleheads had used more electricity than it had paid for the new bill would be pursued.

Catherine Elliot, Rippleheads owner, said she was given the bombshell news of the bill in a phone call from EON.

After protest EON agreed to drop the bill to £37,000, then £30,000, but said it must be paid either in full or installments.

EON said it now realised an incorrect meter was fixed when the premises was built in 2000 - and that readings were a tenth of what they should have been.

Mrs Elliot said: “Clearly this sort of bill could send us out of business. How on earth can they expect us to pay?

"We have always paid what we have been asked to and always paid on time.

"This is not something that we have caused and we are devastated that we could be faced with such a bill. It is ridiculous and we will fight it."

She said that over the years she has never had concerns over the bills.

Mrs Elliot said: "EON have been reading our meter for the past 10 years every three or four months and we always get a normal quarterly bill of around £400.

"We have another unit next door so we never thought there was anything wrong because the bills were similar at the two premises."

In the unit there is a small office, several lights and two walk-in chillers.

A spokesman for EON said: "We are sorry for the poor service received and we understand that it is a large bill and is unacceptable, however the electricity has been used."

In a letter to Mrs Elliot, EON said: "We originally believed our meter had five dials and since investigating your account we have established that the meter has six dials.

"To acknowledge the errors we have made we are willing to offer you a reduction in the balance for payment in full or an extended payment arrangement."

Mrs Elliot said: "We cannot pay and will not pay. We will be taking this to Ofcom.

"They have admitted their mistake and we should not be made to pay.

"These charges date back over 10 years. They cannot do this."

Audley councillor Salim Sidat said: "I am absolutely appalled at this demand from EON.

"It is disgusting the way the firm is being treated. If this is the fault of the electric company there is no way that Rippleheads, which is only a small company, should be expected to pay. This could destroy them."

Rippleheads was established in Hutton Street, Blackburn, in 1975 by Mrs Elliot's father Fred and operates a fleet of ice cream vans as well as supplying many shops across the area.

Comments (57)

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10:16am Sat 1 Jan 11

abdullah says...

The energy providor should give the firm more favourable terms to pay the outstanding amount.Clearly it was the energy providors fault so they should be very lenient.Why again does the reporter have to use the term "community leader",he is a councillor,so say he is a councillor.Just seems that the reporters have been told to use certain phrases to describe asian councillors in tribal terms.As a councillor he has just stated what he thinks is the wrong being done to this company,yet he is being described as a community leader,why?????
The energy providor should give the firm more favourable terms to pay the outstanding amount.Clearly it was the energy providors fault so they should be very lenient.Why again does the reporter have to use the term "community leader",he is a councillor,so say he is a councillor.Just seems that the reporters have been told to use certain phrases to describe asian councillors in tribal terms.As a councillor he has just stated what he thinks is the wrong being done to this company,yet he is being described as a community leader,why????? abdullah
  • Score: 0

10:33am Sat 1 Jan 11

frank says...

if eon have admitted resposibility then they should stand the cost, it's all down to thier own stupidity anyway.
why should rippleheads lose out for something that is not their fault.
all eon have to do is give a few less perks to their greedy bosses and shareholders, or spend slightly less of the obscene amount that they give to football.
big businesses are all the same today, rip off merchants.
if eon have admitted resposibility then they should stand the cost, it's all down to thier own stupidity anyway. why should rippleheads lose out for something that is not their fault. all eon have to do is give a few less perks to their greedy bosses and shareholders, or spend slightly less of the obscene amount that they give to football. big businesses are all the same today, rip off merchants. frank
  • Score: 0

11:37am Sat 1 Jan 11

Slimplynth says...

I want to know why contacting ofcom will help?
I want to know why contacting ofcom will help? Slimplynth
  • Score: 0

11:43am Sat 1 Jan 11

makaveli96 says...

This shouldnt happen in the CURRENT climate
This shouldnt happen in the CURRENT climate makaveli96
  • Score: 0

11:44am Sat 1 Jan 11

Slimplynth says...

Oh obviously, the regulator 'OFGEM' should tell EON...

'You idiots, Rippleheads will pay you nothing and here's your fine for complete incompetence'
Oh obviously, the regulator 'OFGEM' should tell EON... 'You idiots, Rippleheads will pay you nothing and here's your fine for complete incompetence' Slimplynth
  • Score: 0

11:48am Sat 1 Jan 11

mavrick says...

The greed of the energy companies knows no bounds, I wonder how many other customers have been ripped off.
Why are these companies allowed to donate massive amounts of money to football etc.
Thatcher knew what she was doing when she privatised all the public utilities.
Her clone in the shape of tony blair finished off any resistance to total government control.
so pay up and smile folks. the condems will finish the country completely.
The greed of the energy companies knows no bounds, I wonder how many other customers have been ripped off. Why are these companies allowed to donate massive amounts of money to football etc. Thatcher knew what she was doing when she privatised all the public utilities. Her clone in the shape of tony blair finished off any resistance to total government control. so pay up and smile folks. the condems will finish the country completely. mavrick
  • Score: 0

12:03pm Sat 1 Jan 11

ghanto says...

i used to own 2 vans which i sold and i can confirm that each van used £20 of electric a day
take an estimate how much 9 vans electric would be
£180.00 per day?
so the bill is correct
by comming in papers you cannot escape paying a bill for electric you've used
i have heard of ripple heads who rent out vans and take 200 per week

the rent includes electric bill remember

The EON are correct
i used to own 2 vans which i sold and i can confirm that each van used £20 of electric a day take an estimate how much 9 vans electric would be £180.00 per day? so the bill is correct by comming in papers you cannot escape paying a bill for electric you've used i have heard of ripple heads who rent out vans and take 200 per week the rent includes electric bill remember The EON are correct ghanto
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Sat 1 Jan 11

burner says...

Not over-concerned by the story but the term "community leader" is DEEPLY offensive. Where is this? The plains of the Wild West of America? The use of that phrase is so massively WRONG !!!!!
Not over-concerned by the story but the term "community leader" is DEEPLY offensive. Where is this? The plains of the Wild West of America? The use of that phrase is so massively WRONG !!!!! burner
  • Score: 0

12:49pm Sat 1 Jan 11

useyourhead says...

Eon ought to shoulder the lions share of the responsibility for this massive error, they install the wrong meter and read it 40 times and no-one notices any problem, it is incompetance.
-
At the very least they ought to give the firm the same time span to pay it back as it took to accrue.
Eon ought to shoulder the lions share of the responsibility for this massive error, they install the wrong meter and read it 40 times and no-one notices any problem, it is incompetance. - At the very least they ought to give the firm the same time span to pay it back as it took to accrue. useyourhead
  • Score: 0

1:18pm Sat 1 Jan 11

ghanto says...

THIS IS THE SAME COMPANY WHO CAME TO PAPERS WHEN BOROUGH COUNCIL INCREASED ITS LICENSING FEES.

she said she will be out of business becuase council increased its fees


NOW same company is having ago with electric company

Mr Salim Sidat you keep quiet
Do you expect someone to pay taxi fare when they travel by plane?

If you dont understand the thing you must keep quiet

Each van costs about £10.00 of electric a day

This company owns 9 vans and cold rooms

what do they expect

FREE ELECTRIC
THIS IS THE SAME COMPANY WHO CAME TO PAPERS WHEN BOROUGH COUNCIL INCREASED ITS LICENSING FEES. she said she will be out of business becuase council increased its fees NOW same company is having ago with electric company Mr Salim Sidat you keep quiet Do you expect someone to pay taxi fare when they travel by plane? If you dont understand the thing you must keep quiet Each van costs about £10.00 of electric a day This company owns 9 vans and cold rooms what do they expect FREE ELECTRIC ghanto
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Sat 1 Jan 11

JUPITER112 says...

community leader Mr Sidat are you out of your mind?
DO YOU KNOW THIS COMPANY OWNS 9 VANS AND MAKE £300.00 PER VAN EVERY WEEK?
this company earns more money every week then what you earn every year

so get your facts right before saying things like "small busines"

these company rent vans with their own made stock
what they cant do is use electric and not pay
community leader Mr Sidat are you out of your mind? DO YOU KNOW THIS COMPANY OWNS 9 VANS AND MAKE £300.00 PER VAN EVERY WEEK? this company earns more money every week then what you earn every year so get your facts right before saying things like "small busines" these company rent vans with their own made stock what they cant do is use electric and not pay JUPITER112
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Sat 1 Jan 11

masterdebater.co.uk says...

When they got their new meter did their bills fall to a tenth of what they previosuly were?
When they got their new meter did their bills fall to a tenth of what they previosuly were? masterdebater.co.uk
  • Score: 0

3:12pm Sat 1 Jan 11

611b says...

"Community leader"? What does this mean? He is just a councillor.
This sounds just like when the police put "serving the communities" on their web sites and police vehicles. Why don't the police say "serving the community" to reinforce their message that the law applies equally to all people in this country?
We will never get integration as long as certain groups are treated as special cases.
"Community leader"? What does this mean? He is just a councillor. This sounds just like when the police put "serving the communities" on their web sites and police vehicles. Why don't the police say "serving the community" to reinforce their message that the law applies equally to all people in this country? We will never get integration as long as certain groups are treated as special cases. 611b
  • Score: 0

3:37pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Dai Darwen says...

Rippleheads you have been found out. You have used £60,000 of electricity that has not been paid for. Honestly or dishonestly.

EON have generously reduced the bill twice to £30,000, which you are being allowed to pay back in installments. Do the honest thing and PAY UP.

Any company worth their salt will know when they are discrepancies in their monthly charges.

No sympathy whatsoever, any domestic user would not get away with £30,000 of free electricity.
Rippleheads you have been found out. You have used £60,000 of electricity that has not been paid for. Honestly or dishonestly. EON have generously reduced the bill twice to £30,000, which you are being allowed to pay back in installments. Do the honest thing and PAY UP. Any company worth their salt will know when they are discrepancies in their monthly charges. No sympathy whatsoever, any domestic user would not get away with £30,000 of free electricity. Dai Darwen
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Sat 1 Jan 11

abdullah says...

Reading the comments here it does seem as if this firm hasnt been very honest about the whole affair.Why this councillor got involved i do not know.Has he too much time on his hand,why isnt he doing anything for the ward he represents.I havnt heard any comments from him about his ward!!! In future please stick to local politics,and the people of the ward you represent.Youre not a business consultant or business crusader,keep within youre remit
Reading the comments here it does seem as if this firm hasnt been very honest about the whole affair.Why this councillor got involved i do not know.Has he too much time on his hand,why isnt he doing anything for the ward he represents.I havnt heard any comments from him about his ward!!! In future please stick to local politics,and the people of the ward you represent.Youre not a business consultant or business crusader,keep within youre remit abdullah
  • Score: 0

3:47pm Sat 1 Jan 11

uptanutz says...

These electricity suppliers are shocking..
These electricity suppliers are shocking.. uptanutz
  • Score: 0

4:59pm Sat 1 Jan 11

xrayspex77 says...

I thought you were gonna say that the bill was 'hundreds and thousands!'
I thought you were gonna say that the bill was 'hundreds and thousands!' xrayspex77
  • Score: 0

5:24pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Republican says...

The LT can't even can't get Ms Elliot's title right; it's Ms not Mrs because if they use Mrs they should put her married name which isn't Elliot.
The LT can't even can't get Ms Elliot's title right; it's Ms not Mrs because if they use Mrs they should put her married name which isn't Elliot. Republican
  • Score: 0

5:41pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Lifeinthemix says...

Lucifers electric light....
Lucifers electric light.... Lifeinthemix
  • Score: 0

6:10pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Hopping mad says...

I want to know when this government is going to get a back bone when it comes to big businesses ripping off the general public? Seems to me that they allow this to happen because they are intent on elitism and they would like to bleed the poorer people dry. Its criminal the way the gas and electric companies are allowed to raise prices at certain times of the year to maximise profits and appease shareholders. I wonder what they would do if we all at the same time didn't pay?

The country is on its knee's and the only way to stop being ripped off is to get out.
I want to know when this government is going to get a back bone when it comes to big businesses ripping off the general public? Seems to me that they allow this to happen because they are intent on elitism and they would like to bleed the poorer people dry. Its criminal the way the gas and electric companies are allowed to raise prices at certain times of the year to maximise profits and appease shareholders. I wonder what they would do if we all at the same time didn't pay? The country is on its knee's and the only way to stop being ripped off is to get out. Hopping mad
  • Score: 0

6:15pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Hugh Jardon says...

what was Nipplehead's bill prior to moving to EON?
If it was much cheaper after the move was this challenged?
I suspect not...
what was Nipplehead's bill prior to moving to EON? If it was much cheaper after the move was this challenged? I suspect not... Hugh Jardon
  • Score: 0

11:09pm Sat 1 Jan 11

B E BOYS ARE FRAUDS!!!! says...

Mrs Ripple

I blame B E Boys the property owners get down fat git John Crawley and stick the bill up his A"£$. Its their unit you rent its not your fault if EON fitted wrong meter that is between them and BOYS. I left 1 of the properties last year. Change your suppliers it may help!! So up yours BOYS and Crawley! By the way they believe in family values so get boys to pay bill as they say anybody who rents our units are part of the family lol!!!! Good Luck!
Mrs Ripple I blame B E Boys the property owners get down fat git John Crawley and stick the bill up his A"£$. Its their unit you rent its not your fault if EON fitted wrong meter that is between them and BOYS. I left 1 of the properties last year. Change your suppliers it may help!! So up yours BOYS and Crawley! By the way they believe in family values so get boys to pay bill as they say anybody who rents our units are part of the family lol!!!! Good Luck! B E BOYS ARE FRAUDS!!!!
  • Score: 0

11:24pm Sat 1 Jan 11

Darwenbert says...

abdullah wrote:
Reading the comments here it does seem as if this firm hasnt been very honest about the whole affair.Why this councillor got involved i do not know.Has he too much time on his hand,why isnt he doing anything for the ward he represents.I havnt heard any comments from him about his ward!!! In future please stick to local politics,and the people of the ward you represent.Youre not a business consultant or business crusader,keep within youre remit
well said..
[quote][p][bold]abdullah[/bold] wrote: Reading the comments here it does seem as if this firm hasnt been very honest about the whole affair.Why this councillor got involved i do not know.Has he too much time on his hand,why isnt he doing anything for the ward he represents.I havnt heard any comments from him about his ward!!! In future please stick to local politics,and the people of the ward you represent.Youre not a business consultant or business crusader,keep within youre remit[/p][/quote]well said.. Darwenbert
  • Score: 0

12:56am Sun 2 Jan 11

sonny says...

theyve been found out simple as,

the electric company as give them a 50% reduction and they still have the cheek to complain.

bellends
theyve been found out simple as, the electric company as give them a 50% reduction and they still have the cheek to complain. bellends sonny
  • Score: 0

2:02pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Ripplehead Ices says...

Many thanks for the positive comments I have received. Quite a number of you have got the wrong side of the story namely the place where the vans are stored is billed on a seperate electricity meter and paid for seperately so how much it costs to run ice cream vans is im-material as it is not included in this bill.

The problem is that I moved into the premises from new ie the first tenant so I have not changed electricity companies as some people commented on but i have always been with e-on.

They have come and read the meters every quarter sent the bill and we have paid it.

Now they are saying they have read the meter incorrectly for ten years and have submitted us with an additional invoice.

So all thoe people who think we are just using this as a cheap publicity stunt and should pay it let me ask this, you shop at Tesco every week for ten years, when you get to the checkout you pay they bill and go home. Ten years later Tesco comes knocking at your door and says sorry for the last ten years we have undercharged you and you now owe thousand of pounds. What would you say then ????.


As for the comment that I am living with an Asian man who used to work in a factory for £1.00 per hour - I fail to see what that has to do with the electricity bill.

Who I am married to has nothing to do with anybody and where that person works has nothing to do with anybody else.

Everything carried out by myself and my family has and always will be above board.
Many thanks for the positive comments I have received. Quite a number of you have got the wrong side of the story namely the place where the vans are stored is billed on a seperate electricity meter and paid for seperately so how much it costs to run ice cream vans is im-material as it is not included in this bill. The problem is that I moved into the premises from new ie the first tenant so I have not changed electricity companies as some people commented on but i have always been with e-on. They have come and read the meters every quarter sent the bill and we have paid it. Now they are saying they have read the meter incorrectly for ten years and have submitted us with an additional invoice. So all thoe people who think we are just using this as a cheap publicity stunt and should pay it let me ask this, you shop at Tesco every week for ten years, when you get to the checkout you pay they bill and go home. Ten years later Tesco comes knocking at your door and says sorry for the last ten years we have undercharged you and you now owe thousand of pounds. What would you say then ????. As for the comment that I am living with an Asian man who used to work in a factory for £1.00 per hour - I fail to see what that has to do with the electricity bill. Who I am married to has nothing to do with anybody and where that person works has nothing to do with anybody else. Everything carried out by myself and my family has and always will be above board. Ripplehead Ices
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Newsreport says...

I am pleased you have posted your comments rippleheads and would like to pass on my support.

Quite frankly I'm disgusted with some of the comments above. I fail to see how your personal living arrangements are in anyway related to this report.
Secondly some of the comments made are nothing other than slander and I strongly feel these people should be ashamed of themselves and reported!

I myself do not understand where people are getting the information from about your companies income, whether it is correct or not I again fail to see how this is relevant to the incorrect billing of your electricity.

As for an eyesore, I love the sight and sound of the ice cream van! And miss the visits around neighbourhoods. And would be glad to see more of them.

In the current climate I praise anyone and everyone who works hard to make a living for their families. Working in temperatures of -8 as commented is nothing but commendable. What would this reader be happier if people stayed at home and claimed benefits?? I praise all the workers who are out in all weather conditions working hard to earn a decent honest living.
I am pleased you have posted your comments rippleheads and would like to pass on my support. Quite frankly I'm disgusted with some of the comments above. I fail to see how your personal living arrangements are in anyway related to this report. Secondly some of the comments made are nothing other than slander and I strongly feel these people should be ashamed of themselves and reported! I myself do not understand where people are getting the information from about your companies income, whether it is correct or not I again fail to see how this is relevant to the incorrect billing of your electricity. As for an eyesore, I love the sight and sound of the ice cream van! And miss the visits around neighbourhoods. And would be glad to see more of them. In the current climate I praise anyone and everyone who works hard to make a living for their families. Working in temperatures of -8 as commented is nothing but commendable. What would this reader be happier if people stayed at home and claimed benefits?? I praise all the workers who are out in all weather conditions working hard to earn a decent honest living. Newsreport
  • Score: 0

3:05pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Newsreport says...

Jupiter 112 , you clearly are reading what you want to and interpreting what you like to bad mouth people.

The electricity bill is for a different premises to where the vans are kept overnight!
You clearly have nothing better to do than to than to report on things you have no facts, or experience on.

Your comments:
"you must be strict on your mrs"
"living with an Asian man"
"worked for 1.00 per hour in a factory"

Why don't you take my advice and concentrate on getting the facts correct, and things simple enough for you understand before you make racial, uneducated and down right slanderous comments.
If I were rippleheads I would be going to the paper about your comments never mind the bill! You should be reported as a slanderous troublemaker !
Jupiter 112 , you clearly are reading what you want to and interpreting what you like to bad mouth people. The electricity bill is for a different premises to where the vans are kept overnight! You clearly have nothing better to do than to than to report on things you have no facts, or experience on. Your comments: "you must be strict on your mrs" "living with an Asian man" "worked for 1.00 per hour in a factory" Why don't you take my advice and concentrate on getting the facts correct, and things simple enough for you understand before you make racial, uneducated and down right slanderous comments. If I were rippleheads I would be going to the paper about your comments never mind the bill! You should be reported as a slanderous troublemaker ! Newsreport
  • Score: 0

3:22pm Mon 3 Jan 11

DM123 says...

JUPITER112,
Having read the post directly from Rippleheads, evidently you have failed to see and pick up on some of the major points mention, which you have again brought up in your arguement.

Firstly, you mention the expense of plugging in chilled ice cream vans. This WOULD be a fair point, however you have failed to see what Ripplehead Ices made clear in my opinion; which was the sheer fact that the place where the ice cream vans are stored are PLACED ON A SEPERATE BILL and are PAID FOR SEPERATELY; an obvious flaw in your arguement.

Furthermore, nowhere in the news report that the Telegraph documented, or anywhere in Ripplehead Ices comment, does it say that compensation was claimed. A point was made about going out of business- for a family run small business like Rippleheads, a reptuble company established in Lancashire for many years now, a £30,000 set back is a hefty sum to pay out. A sum in my eyes, any small business would struggle to pay off. So this leaves me to pose the question, a business owner who works honestly and comitted, day in day out, endeavouring in all weather conditions for a company that they love, has no right to feel apprehensive about going out of business?

Finally JUPITER112, you disgust me on how and why you bring personal matters into an arguement which clearly has no involvement in what we should be discussing. The statement posted has no relevance whatsoever, and also is a statement, in my opinion, lacks truth, from something that "you have heard".

Catherine at Rippleheads, i commend your honest and hard working approach to life and work. Keep fighting this battle and more importantly, do not let idiots commenting on this story affect your thoughts and feelings on the current situation, in which you are most certainly not in the wrong.
JUPITER112, Having read the post directly from Rippleheads, evidently you have failed to see and pick up on some of the major points mention, which you have again brought up in your arguement. Firstly, you mention the expense of plugging in chilled ice cream vans. This WOULD be a fair point, however you have failed to see what Ripplehead Ices made clear in my opinion; which was the sheer fact that the place where the ice cream vans are stored are PLACED ON A SEPERATE BILL and are PAID FOR SEPERATELY; an obvious flaw in your arguement. Furthermore, nowhere in the news report that the Telegraph documented, or anywhere in Ripplehead Ices comment, does it say that compensation was claimed. A point was made about going out of business- for a family run small business like Rippleheads, a reptuble company established in Lancashire for many years now, a £30,000 set back is a hefty sum to pay out. A sum in my eyes, any small business would struggle to pay off. So this leaves me to pose the question, a business owner who works honestly and comitted, day in day out, endeavouring in all weather conditions for a company that they love, has no right to feel apprehensive about going out of business? Finally JUPITER112, you disgust me on how and why you bring personal matters into an arguement which clearly has no involvement in what we should be discussing. The statement posted has no relevance whatsoever, and also is a statement, in my opinion, lacks truth, from something that "you have heard". Catherine at Rippleheads, i commend your honest and hard working approach to life and work. Keep fighting this battle and more importantly, do not let idiots commenting on this story affect your thoughts and feelings on the current situation, in which you are most certainly not in the wrong. DM123
  • Score: 0

6:03pm Mon 3 Jan 11

newsreaderlink says...

i am a customer of rippleheads

however i see nothing wrong stated by jupiter112 and infact its word of advice

Jupiter is advising correctly that if Catherine didnt go to the papers then no one wouldve made these comments.

2ndly i recall Rippleheads comming in papers several times claiming they would be out of business / face financial ruin etc
Proffesional company should be proud of their business rather then making comments of out of business

The issues / bill relates to unit on Appleby Street where the business Ripplheads is being operated from (I go there twice a week) vans are parked on same unit and cold room is at the same unit

Just by the vans are parked on Appleby street and the issues relates to the unit
changing story is not possible

Can you let me know which address the bill is for and which address the vans are kept?

In relation to report jupiter112

I see no need becuase its freedom to amke comments if issues appear in papers
i am a customer of rippleheads however i see nothing wrong stated by jupiter112 and infact its word of advice Jupiter is advising correctly that if Catherine didnt go to the papers then no one wouldve made these comments. 2ndly i recall Rippleheads comming in papers several times claiming they would be out of business / face financial ruin etc Proffesional company should be proud of their business rather then making comments of out of business The issues / bill relates to unit on Appleby Street where the business Ripplheads is being operated from (I go there twice a week) vans are parked on same unit and cold room is at the same unit Just by the vans are parked on Appleby street and the issues relates to the unit changing story is not possible Can you let me know which address the bill is for and which address the vans are kept? In relation to report jupiter112 I see no need becuase its freedom to amke comments if issues appear in papers newsreaderlink
  • Score: 0

6:25pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Ripplehead Ices says...

yes you are correct, i have two units on Appleby street one where the vans are stored and the one next door where the office is, each has its own seperate electricity meter. the one under question is not where the vans are stored but the one next door ie the office.
yes you are correct, i have two units on Appleby street one where the vans are stored and the one next door where the office is, each has its own seperate electricity meter. the one under question is not where the vans are stored but the one next door ie the office. Ripplehead Ices
  • Score: 0

6:38pm Mon 3 Jan 11

DM123 says...

I took particular interest in this news story as i have visited the site previous to the report. Do correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall Ripplehead Ices using TWO, yes TWO units- one to store the ice cream vans (irrelevant in this case, as the bill was for the OTHER unit), and one unit for storing the stock, obvioulsy containing the freezers. Next time you visit Appleby street, I suggest that you take a closer look at the premesis before contradicting what has already been established.

And if not go to the papers, who do they go to? Large businesses such as E-ON need to be exploited for their wrong doings, not get away with it. If it wasn't for people like Catherine at Rippleheads, standing up to these large businesses, then where would modern society be today? Our lives would be dictated by these bussinesses, overcharging us and taking advantage of our economic vulnerablity, due to their incompetence in billing.

newsreaderlink, you post comments about the bill, you are of course entitled to your own opinion, as I am of mine. What I find unacceptable however, is how barbaric personal statements with no relevance whatsoever can be made about the situation. Is this freedom of speech, or just a juvenile way to demean a hardworking family run business?
I took particular interest in this news story as i have visited the site previous to the report. Do correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall Ripplehead Ices using TWO, yes TWO units- one to store the ice cream vans (irrelevant in this case, as the bill was for the OTHER unit), and one unit for storing the stock, obvioulsy containing the freezers. Next time you visit Appleby street, I suggest that you take a closer look at the premesis before contradicting what has already been established. And if not go to the papers, who do they go to? Large businesses such as E-ON need to be exploited for their wrong doings, not get away with it. If it wasn't for people like Catherine at Rippleheads, standing up to these large businesses, then where would modern society be today? Our lives would be dictated by these bussinesses, overcharging us and taking advantage of our economic vulnerablity, due to their incompetence in billing. newsreaderlink, you post comments about the bill, you are of course entitled to your own opinion, as I am of mine. What I find unacceptable however, is how barbaric personal statements with no relevance whatsoever can be made about the situation. Is this freedom of speech, or just a juvenile way to demean a hardworking family run business? DM123
  • Score: 0

6:51pm Mon 3 Jan 11

newsreaderlink says...

I used to rent the unit in Appleby street myself right opposite Rippleheads for my tyres business in 2009

I know the landlords of the unit very well and so as to what units are rented by Rippleheads

Advice
Forget the comments, forget everything and pay up the bill

Large bill + lying about units makes sense.




pl
I used to rent the unit in Appleby street myself right opposite Rippleheads for my tyres business in 2009 I know the landlords of the unit very well and so as to what units are rented by Rippleheads Advice Forget the comments, forget everything and pay up the bill Large bill + lying about units makes sense. pl newsreaderlink
  • Score: 0

7:03pm Mon 3 Jan 11

DM123 says...

"Lying about units"?
Ripplehead Ices made it more than clear that they have 2 units, and therefore 2 different bills which are read, one of them read wrongly for 10 years.
newsreaderlink, you are a customer of Rippleheads and yet you had a tyre business in 2009? What happened there, large business ask for something that you could not afford and put you out of business perhaps? Somehow, I think not.
Any right minded buissinessman/ woman would want to see this through, not give up and risk losing the business they have sucessfully got running. I am no buissnessman, yet i know that giving up is not an attribute of a succesful businessperson, ESPECIALLY when you have done no wrong doing. Is this why you no longer have your tyre business... I dont mean to prejudge, it just seems a more reasonable explaination.
"Lying about units"? Ripplehead Ices made it more than clear that they have 2 units, and therefore 2 different bills which are read, one of them read wrongly for 10 years. newsreaderlink, you are a customer of Rippleheads and yet you had a tyre business in 2009? What happened there, large business ask for something that you could not afford and put you out of business perhaps? Somehow, I think not. Any right minded buissinessman/ woman would want to see this through, not give up and risk losing the business they have sucessfully got running. I am no buissnessman, yet i know that giving up is not an attribute of a succesful businessperson, ESPECIALLY when you have done no wrong doing. Is this why you no longer have your tyre business... I dont mean to prejudge, it just seems a more reasonable explaination. DM123
  • Score: 0

8:13pm Mon 3 Jan 11

newsreaderlink says...

DM123


Any good relationship with Rippleheads??


Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born

in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair"

Got the point now

If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans???

You ILLITERATE

my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen

We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit

Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own

Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people

Do You tamper with your bills

No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this

Illiterate man
DM123 Any good relationship with Rippleheads?? Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair" Got the point now If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans??? You ILLITERATE my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people Do You tamper with your bills No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this Illiterate man newsreaderlink
  • Score: 0

8:34pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Hugh Jardon says...

newsreaderlink wrote:
DM123


Any good relationship with Rippleheads??


Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born

in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair"

Got the point now

If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans???

You ILLITERATE

my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen

We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit

Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own

Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people

Do You tamper with your bills

No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this

Illiterate man
May I express my deep admiration for the manner in which you have responded.
Your charming 'use' of the English language & piddle poor grammar-whilst, at the same time, suggesting that another poster is illiterate is simply superb.
Do come back on here & have another go at being a bit of a piddington..you'll have to try very hard to beat your last effort.
PMSL...
[quote][p][bold]newsreaderlink[/bold] wrote: DM123 Any good relationship with Rippleheads?? Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair" Got the point now If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans??? You ILLITERATE my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people Do You tamper with your bills No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this Illiterate man[/p][/quote]May I express my deep admiration for the manner in which you have responded. Your charming 'use' of the English language & piddle poor grammar-whilst, at the same time, suggesting that another poster is illiterate is simply superb. Do come back on here & have another go at being a bit of a piddington..you'll have to try very hard to beat your last effort. PMSL... Hugh Jardon
  • Score: 0

9:01pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Newsreport says...

Newsreader your absolutely correct that freedom of speech is a right, by bringing this matter to the public, people will have their own opinions and have the right to voice those.

However comments made by certain people have been nothing but slanderous remarks. I fail to see how discussing the race, previous employment and salary of anyone has got anything to do with this story.

Comments made seem to be nothing more than a nasty, personal attack on an ex-competitor.

I ask you what any of this has got to do with the payment of the electric bill!

I do not know the set up of the units, however common sense leads me to believe if rippleheads had anything to hide or be dishonest about paying the bill they would not have brought it to the publics attention.

I hope that as a small business you never run into any problems that cause you to need support off fellow local businesses.
Newsreader your absolutely correct that freedom of speech is a right, by bringing this matter to the public, people will have their own opinions and have the right to voice those. However comments made by certain people have been nothing but slanderous remarks. I fail to see how discussing the race, previous employment and salary of anyone has got anything to do with this story. Comments made seem to be nothing more than a nasty, personal attack on an ex-competitor. I ask you what any of this has got to do with the payment of the electric bill! I do not know the set up of the units, however common sense leads me to believe if rippleheads had anything to hide or be dishonest about paying the bill they would not have brought it to the publics attention. I hope that as a small business you never run into any problems that cause you to need support off fellow local businesses. Newsreport
  • Score: 0

10:06pm Mon 3 Jan 11

Sholing Ian says...

This is an interesting case. Firstly it should be easy to establish the typical use of this supply and confirm if an undercharge has actually occurred. We also have a Statute of Limitations that limits such claims to a maximum of 6 years back. This may have already been reflected in the reduction of the claim from £60k to £37k. There are also further time limitations on meter adjustments contained with the settlement system code of the electricity supply industry - governing the relationship between suppliers like Eon and local wires businesses like United Utilities. This is complex stuff but could prove interesting in this case.
By the way, the regulator OFGEM will most likely not be able to adjudicate on this case as the company's electricity use will probably be too big. I have hours of fun every day trying to sort out problems very much like this!

By crickey though, some of the other comments about this story are something else entirely. Blackburn must be an exciting place to live!
This is an interesting case. Firstly it should be easy to establish the typical use of this supply and confirm if an undercharge has actually occurred. We also have a Statute of Limitations that limits such claims to a maximum of 6 years back. This may have already been reflected in the reduction of the claim from £60k to £37k. There are also further time limitations on meter adjustments contained with the settlement system code of the electricity supply industry - governing the relationship between suppliers like Eon and local wires businesses like United Utilities. This is complex stuff but could prove interesting in this case. By the way, the regulator OFGEM will most likely not be able to adjudicate on this case as the company's electricity use will probably be too big. I have hours of fun every day trying to sort out problems very much like this! By crickey though, some of the other comments about this story are something else entirely. Blackburn must be an exciting place to live! Sholing Ian
  • Score: 0

10:20pm Mon 3 Jan 11

DM123 says...

newsreaderlink wrote:
DM123 Any good relationship with Rippleheads?? Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair" Got the point now If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans??? You ILLITERATE my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people Do You tamper with your bills No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this Illiterate man
I commend your use of the english language here, it really does show a side of you positively gleaming with intellect. Have I ever been to school you ask? Ripplehead Ices have stressed several times that the vans are in one unit, and the freezer in another unit. Yet you seem adimant to make this a case for arguement, when clearly there is no arguement present. You have been contradicted several times now, proven wrong by the owner of the business who knows the layout of the units, although you will not admit defeat. Your either a persistant idiot, or you're the uneducated one in this arguement.
[quote][p][bold]newsreaderlink[/bold] wrote: DM123 Any good relationship with Rippleheads?? Did you go to school? or have you been like this since you were born in the news Ripplehead said themselves that they have another unit and bills are "similair" Got the point now If one van takes £10 per hour electric how can unit next door cost only £400? with cold room and 9 vans??? You ILLITERATE my honest business lead me to buy a shop with unit in Darwen We run a shop and do tyre business in the unit Honest business would lead to buy unit of your own Goodbye no more comments with illiterate people Do You tamper with your bills No wonder you not a businessman with ill thought like this Illiterate man[/p][/quote]I commend your use of the english language here, it really does show a side of you positively gleaming with intellect. Have I ever been to school you ask? Ripplehead Ices have stressed several times that the vans are in one unit, and the freezer in another unit. Yet you seem adimant to make this a case for arguement, when clearly there is no arguement present. You have been contradicted several times now, proven wrong by the owner of the business who knows the layout of the units, although you will not admit defeat. Your either a persistant idiot, or you're the uneducated one in this arguement. DM123
  • Score: 0

12:05am Tue 4 Jan 11

justfin says...

Just to ask the question without the abusive language.

If the company rents 2 units.

Both bills come in at around £400 per month each.

The cost of charging 1 van each night is £10.

They have 9 vans.

Assuming that only 4 vans get charged each night, to take into account quiet periods and periods of non usage.

Thats 4 * 10 * 365

£14600 per annum.

If they are paying £400 for one unit per month thats £4800 per annum and £400 for the second, thats £4800, total £9600 p/a.

Therefore each year they are paying £5000 less than they should, even before taking into account the amount it costs to run both buildings.

This should have rung alarms at a very early stage.

Any business person should know there costs, surely you would have noticed this within the first year!?

Or do you have a third property where you charge the vans?
Just to ask the question without the abusive language. If the company rents 2 units. Both bills come in at around £400 per month each. The cost of charging 1 van each night is £10. They have 9 vans. Assuming that only 4 vans get charged each night, to take into account quiet periods and periods of non usage. Thats 4 * 10 * 365 £14600 per annum. If they are paying £400 for one unit per month thats £4800 per annum and £400 for the second, thats £4800, total £9600 p/a. Therefore each year they are paying £5000 less than they should, even before taking into account the amount it costs to run both buildings. This should have rung alarms at a very early stage. Any business person should know there costs, surely you would have noticed this within the first year!? Or do you have a third property where you charge the vans? justfin
  • Score: 0

12:07am Tue 4 Jan 11

justfin says...

The only way this can't be right (excluding having alternate charging arrangements) is that business is very poor and you don't have to charge vans that often and are secretly using both properties equally to charge them, or have more demanding equipment in the one that doesn't charge the vans.
The only way this can't be right (excluding having alternate charging arrangements) is that business is very poor and you don't have to charge vans that often and are secretly using both properties equally to charge them, or have more demanding equipment in the one that doesn't charge the vans. justfin
  • Score: 0

12:10am Tue 4 Jan 11

Lifeinthemix says...

Ripplehead Ices,
.
good show for giving your side, I think we all understand how the utility companies are nothing other than a scam, they make it up as they go along, and as your story clearly shows, they can also use these Intelligence arms to destroy companies they don't have in their pockets.
.
I hope you fight this all the way and have the success you deserve.
.
PS. understanding common law over Statute law may well help you a lot more than you think...
Ripplehead Ices, . good show for giving your side, I think we all understand how the utility companies are nothing other than a scam, they make it up as they go along, and as your story clearly shows, they can also use these Intelligence arms to destroy companies they don't have in their pockets. . I hope you fight this all the way and have the success you deserve. . PS. understanding common law over Statute law may well help you a lot more than you think... Lifeinthemix
  • Score: 0

12:17am Tue 4 Jan 11

justfin says...

Please also be careful here, you are a company not an indivudal so some common law and statue law doesn't apply to you as a trader, if you decide to fight get legal advice, but i'm concerned that my last post is right and that this has been a genuine error on both sides
Please also be careful here, you are a company not an indivudal so some common law and statue law doesn't apply to you as a trader, if you decide to fight get legal advice, but i'm concerned that my last post is right and that this has been a genuine error on both sides justfin
  • Score: 0

12:21am Tue 4 Jan 11

Lifeinthemix says...

personally I would look to removing any and all claims from the hands of statutes. If the company read the metres and sent a bill, you pay the bills, then you have lawfully complied with their invoice, mistakes made by eon are their mistakes, they are therefore responsible.
.
I would bring a case in the civil court to make eon provide the criteria on which they claim a mistake was made and how they square it up with the obvious changes they have made to your future tariff based on their finding of the mistake, turn it around and demand they provide evidence of their claims instead of fighting their claims on your back-foot
personally I would look to removing any and all claims from the hands of statutes. If the company read the metres and sent a bill, you pay the bills, then you have lawfully complied with their invoice, mistakes made by eon are their mistakes, they are therefore responsible. . I would bring a case in the civil court to make eon provide the criteria on which they claim a mistake was made and how they square it up with the obvious changes they have made to your future tariff based on their finding of the mistake, turn it around and demand they provide evidence of their claims instead of fighting their claims on your back-foot Lifeinthemix
  • Score: 0

12:21am Tue 4 Jan 11

teddybooy says...

Very interesting story, and from working in the industry i can tell you of the facts of whats happened with this meter. The meter works as a normal meter does just like in your home, the difference with this one is its capable of supplying the higher consuming business. When the meter is read by the reader the readings are submitted, the problem lies in how the readings are entered onto the system, this meter has a "constant 10" which means every time the dials/digits increase by 1, the meter has actually used 10 billable KWH, so if the supplier bills the account to the exact reads , it will look normal to all concerned, its when someone checks and then investigates that this happens, as if the meter has used 20,000 units then it should be billed for 200,000. if the charge per kwh is 8p (for arguments sake) this business has clearly been recieving very cheap bills compared to what they should have been, its the shortfall over 10 years whats being billed for, if you ring the company and ask for a explanation this is what you should be told.
Very interesting story, and from working in the industry i can tell you of the facts of whats happened with this meter. The meter works as a normal meter does just like in your home, the difference with this one is its capable of supplying the higher consuming business. When the meter is read by the reader the readings are submitted, the problem lies in how the readings are entered onto the system, this meter has a "constant 10" which means every time the dials/digits increase by 1, the meter has actually used 10 billable KWH, so if the supplier bills the account to the exact reads , it will look normal to all concerned, its when someone checks and then investigates that this happens, as if the meter has used 20,000 units then it should be billed for 200,000. if the charge per kwh is 8p (for arguments sake) this business has clearly been recieving very cheap bills compared to what they should have been, its the shortfall over 10 years whats being billed for, if you ring the company and ask for a explanation this is what you should be told. teddybooy
  • Score: 0

12:35am Tue 4 Jan 11

justfin says...

teddyboy makes plenty of sense.

if that is the case then its definitely worth hiring a good lawyer and going to court to fight.
teddyboy makes plenty of sense. if that is the case then its definitely worth hiring a good lawyer and going to court to fight. justfin
  • Score: 0

3:36am Tue 4 Jan 11

right-angle says...

Just a thought that came to mind whilst reading justfin's post - Ms Elliot quotes herself as saying that she only uses 6 flourescent lights and a small freezer in the unit concerned (on BBC news website - http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-lan
cashire-12108666) yet is pictured on this report standing in front of a 3-phase supply distribution board, which in itself indicates a large electricity load being used in the premises. Most domestic properties use a great deal more electricity than that required by 6 lights and a freezer and are sufficiently served by a single phase supply.
I note Ms Elliot's comment above that she was the first tenant of the premises – it is, therefore, likely that the electricity supply to the premises was connected or amended according to her specifications as opposed to having been inherited from a previous tenant. This, in itself, would indicate that she would be more than aware the electricity usage would be substantial – certainly a great deal more electricity than would be used by 6 lights and a single freezer.
Whilst a quarterly domestic bill of £400 would be exceptionally high, it certainly isn’t beyond the realms of possibility and such usage would anyway easily be handled by a single phase supply so it does seem a bit strange that the Ms Elliot wasn’t aware that such bills were exceptionally low considering that the 3-phase supply servicing the premises. That’s not to say that E-on shouldn’t shoulder some of the responsibility for not billing her correctly (which they evidently have by charging her 50% less than she has actually used) but she also needs to shoulder some of the responsibility for not bringing the problem to their attention in the first place.
One other thought that came to mind is that is must be much warmer in Blackburn than it is in Darwen and therefore no heating is required in the premises, so that would negate the need for any heating – already confirmed by Ms Elliot advising there is only 6 lights and a single freezer in use on the premises. Perhaps the heat produced by the lights and the single freezer provide plenty of heat? Perhaps there are no computers in use on the premises either? Perhaps all the staff have to bring their tea/coffee/hot drinks with them each day in a flask to avoid using a kettle, lest that 3-phase supply be overloaded? Perhaps there’s no mains hot water facilities either (bit worrying in a food establishment)? – shouldn’t be a problem though with the plentiful hot water supply slowly dripping down from the drain at the back of the single freezer.
One final thought that came to mind was that would Ms Elliot accept receiving an electricity bill for her home of £400 per quarter if she only had 6 fluorescent lights and a freezer in use? Would she not contact her supplier to query why her bill was so high when only using such a small number of appliances? Not too sure from some of the comments above if she lives alone or is married or has a family but, hypothetically speaking, lets assume she lives alone in a small one bedroom flat with a kitchen, bathroom and living room with gas heating and cooking (taking most of the heating/cooking costs out of the equation). There would likely be a main light in the hall, one in the kitchen, one in the bathroom, at least one in the living room and possibly one or two table lamps in the living room and the bedroom. At least four main lights and probably 3 or 4 table lamps. Possibly fluorescent bulbs in the main lamps, but likely incandescent bulbs in the table lamps. Television in the living room, possibly one in the bedroom too. All the television peripheraies – DVD/Bluray player/recorder, sky box etc. Maybe a cordless phone hooked into the mains, also charging her mobile (assume any businessperson would have a mobile), PC (possibly a laptop as well if a business person), printer/scanner, broadband router. In the kitchen – usual everyday appliances such as a fridge, freezer, kettle, toaster, microwave, iron, vacuum cleaner, washing machine (possibly a tumble dryer or dishwasher). Moving on to the bedroom (apart from the television/table lamps mentioned above) – hair dryer, curling tongs (and, to avoid any allegations of sexism, men’s electric shaver).
Many appliances listed above, which many people have all of or most of in their home (which is way way way in excess of 6 striplights and a freezer and would inevitably lead them to query why their bills). Which begs the question – why did Ms Elliot not contact E-on and ask “Why is my electricity bill £400 per quarter for 6 fluorescent lights and a single freezer?”
Perhaps because she knew exactly that they would know from her initial request for a 3-phase supply that she was using more than 6 lights and a single freezer but thought that if she stayed quiet and denied all knowledge of any wrongdoing that she would not have to pay for what she’s actually used. And to use her own example of being undercharged at the checkout in Tesco for your groceries and billed for the undercharge at a later point – most people do a mental calculation in their heads while wandering round the aisles in the supermarket and know roughly what they’re going to be charged at the checkout but still gulp when the bill comes up. A cursory glance at most people pushing their trolley on their way back to their car in any major supermarket carpark reveals a solemn look on their face as they scan their receipt wondering why the bill was higher than they expected until they see several expensive item(s) items they forgot they grabbed off the shelf amd shoved in their trolley and graciously go back home silently criticising the supermarket’s marketing techniques and resolve to be more cautious next time. Unless you are Ms Elliot who “doesn’t manufacture anything here” and “there are no machines running”.
Just a thought that came to mind whilst reading justfin's post - Ms Elliot quotes herself as saying that she only uses 6 flourescent lights and a small freezer in the unit concerned (on BBC news website - http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lan cashire-12108666) yet is pictured on this report standing in front of a 3-phase supply distribution board, which in itself indicates a large electricity load being used in the premises. Most domestic properties use a great deal more electricity than that required by 6 lights and a freezer and are sufficiently served by a single phase supply. I note Ms Elliot's comment above that she was the first tenant of the premises – it is, therefore, likely that the electricity supply to the premises was connected or amended according to her specifications as opposed to having been inherited from a previous tenant. This, in itself, would indicate that she would be more than aware the electricity usage would be substantial – certainly a great deal more electricity than would be used by 6 lights and a single freezer. Whilst a quarterly domestic bill of £400 would be exceptionally high, it certainly isn’t beyond the realms of possibility and such usage would anyway easily be handled by a single phase supply so it does seem a bit strange that the Ms Elliot wasn’t aware that such bills were exceptionally low considering that the 3-phase supply servicing the premises. That’s not to say that E-on shouldn’t shoulder some of the responsibility for not billing her correctly (which they evidently have by charging her 50% less than she has actually used) but she also needs to shoulder some of the responsibility for not bringing the problem to their attention in the first place. One other thought that came to mind is that is must be much warmer in Blackburn than it is in Darwen and therefore no heating is required in the premises, so that would negate the need for any heating – already confirmed by Ms Elliot advising there is only 6 lights and a single freezer in use on the premises. Perhaps the heat produced by the lights and the single freezer provide plenty of heat? Perhaps there are no computers in use on the premises either? Perhaps all the staff have to bring their tea/coffee/hot drinks with them each day in a flask to avoid using a kettle, lest that 3-phase supply be overloaded? Perhaps there’s no mains hot water facilities either (bit worrying in a food establishment)? – shouldn’t be a problem though with the plentiful hot water supply slowly dripping down from the drain at the back of the single freezer. One final thought that came to mind was that would Ms Elliot accept receiving an electricity bill for her home of £400 per quarter if she only had 6 fluorescent lights and a freezer in use? Would she not contact her supplier to query why her bill was so high when only using such a small number of appliances? Not too sure from some of the comments above if she lives alone or is married or has a family but, hypothetically speaking, lets assume she lives alone in a small one bedroom flat with a kitchen, bathroom and living room with gas heating and cooking (taking most of the heating/cooking costs out of the equation). There would likely be a main light in the hall, one in the kitchen, one in the bathroom, at least one in the living room and possibly one or two table lamps in the living room and the bedroom. At least four main lights and probably 3 or 4 table lamps. Possibly fluorescent bulbs in the main lamps, but likely incandescent bulbs in the table lamps. Television in the living room, possibly one in the bedroom too. All the television peripheraies – DVD/Bluray player/recorder, sky box etc. Maybe a cordless phone hooked into the mains, also charging her mobile (assume any businessperson would have a mobile), PC (possibly a laptop as well if a business person), printer/scanner, broadband router. In the kitchen – usual everyday appliances such as a fridge, freezer, kettle, toaster, microwave, iron, vacuum cleaner, washing machine (possibly a tumble dryer or dishwasher). Moving on to the bedroom (apart from the television/table lamps mentioned above) – hair dryer, curling tongs (and, to avoid any allegations of sexism, men’s electric shaver). Many appliances listed above, which many people have all of or most of in their home (which is way way way in excess of 6 striplights and a freezer and would inevitably lead them to query why their bills). Which begs the question – why did Ms Elliot not contact E-on and ask “Why is my electricity bill £400 per quarter for 6 fluorescent lights and a single freezer?” Perhaps because she knew exactly that they would know from her initial request for a 3-phase supply that she was using more than 6 lights and a single freezer but thought that if she stayed quiet and denied all knowledge of any wrongdoing that she would not have to pay for what she’s actually used. And to use her own example of being undercharged at the checkout in Tesco for your groceries and billed for the undercharge at a later point – most people do a mental calculation in their heads while wandering round the aisles in the supermarket and know roughly what they’re going to be charged at the checkout but still gulp when the bill comes up. A cursory glance at most people pushing their trolley on their way back to their car in any major supermarket carpark reveals a solemn look on their face as they scan their receipt wondering why the bill was higher than they expected until they see several expensive item(s) items they forgot they grabbed off the shelf amd shoved in their trolley and graciously go back home silently criticising the supermarket’s marketing techniques and resolve to be more cautious next time. Unless you are Ms Elliot who “doesn’t manufacture anything here” and “there are no machines running”. right-angle
  • Score: 0

3:46am Tue 4 Jan 11

right-angle says...

Anybody else find it a bit strange that an ice-cream company in any shape or form (distribution, storage, manufacturing, retail, wholesale, whatever) only has one single freezer?
Yeah, thought that was a bit strange as well.
Anybody else find it a bit strange that an ice-cream company in any shape or form (distribution, storage, manufacturing, retail, wholesale, whatever) only has one single freezer? Yeah, thought that was a bit strange as well. right-angle
  • Score: 0

7:55am Tue 4 Jan 11

Newsreport says...

I pleased to see that this had turn onto an intellectual discussion about the rights and wrongs of this case.

Do u think if a company had anything to hide about what electrical equipment they use they would invite the newspaper in??

I know little about business law or the experience of running s business.
However I know how I would feel if after ten years of paying my electric bill on time after 40 visits from the electric company to have the meter read, to bit given such a hefty bill.

For me I feel this argument has been discussed in areas not even relevant. It'd simple, who is to blame????
An electrical company, who after ten years, 40 separate visits to have the meter read or a small business who have paid their bills on time according information sent by the experts ?????

Ask yourselves if your electric company came to you now and said sorry we've been reading the meter wrong each and every time for ten years, how would you feel? You would be willing or able to pay the difference?

I back rippleheads all the way, and hope ms Elliot isn't put off by some of the clearly hurtful remarks made by posters and has the strength and backing to fight big electrical companies that are making millions of profit at the hands of hardworking people.
I pleased to see that this had turn onto an intellectual discussion about the rights and wrongs of this case. Do u think if a company had anything to hide about what electrical equipment they use they would invite the newspaper in?? I know little about business law or the experience of running s business. However I know how I would feel if after ten years of paying my electric bill on time after 40 visits from the electric company to have the meter read, to bit given such a hefty bill. For me I feel this argument has been discussed in areas not even relevant. It'd simple, who is to blame???? An electrical company, who after ten years, 40 separate visits to have the meter read or a small business who have paid their bills on time according information sent by the experts ????? Ask yourselves if your electric company came to you now and said sorry we've been reading the meter wrong each and every time for ten years, how would you feel? You would be willing or able to pay the difference? I back rippleheads all the way, and hope ms Elliot isn't put off by some of the clearly hurtful remarks made by posters and has the strength and backing to fight big electrical companies that are making millions of profit at the hands of hardworking people. Newsreport
  • Score: 0

9:07am Tue 4 Jan 11

Sholing Ian says...

Yes, the quality of the debate has improved somewhat thank goodness with some sensible points made.

Please keep in mind the 6 year limitations period. This basically means that if you have been undercharged for 10 years, you may as well keep stum as usage is continually falling off the end of the 6 year conveyor belt. Many people are aware of the fact that they are being undercharged, of course.

As regards the utility companies right to make these adjustments, their rights are guaranteed within the terms of the supply contracts they have with their users and generally by statute such as the Utilities Act 2000. They have the deck stacked to a significant degree in their favour and try to exploit this.

By the way, the factor of 10 undercharges can work in the other way and be factor of 10 overcharges - - I had a client in Warrington who was being charged 10 times more than he should have been in a new premises for about 12 months. Luckily we recovered all the overcharge but had it been going on for many years, we would not have succeeded in getting it all back.

No one without ALL the information about the 2 supplies (all meter reads, contracts, old billing etc) can come to any firm conclusion on what might be owed.
Yes, the quality of the debate has improved somewhat thank goodness with some sensible points made. Please keep in mind the 6 year limitations period. This basically means that if you have been undercharged for 10 years, you may as well keep stum as usage is continually falling off the end of the 6 year conveyor belt. Many people are aware of the fact that they are being undercharged, of course. As regards the utility companies right to make these adjustments, their rights are guaranteed within the terms of the supply contracts they have with their users and generally by statute such as the Utilities Act 2000. They have the deck stacked to a significant degree in their favour and try to exploit this. By the way, the factor of 10 undercharges can work in the other way and be factor of 10 overcharges - - I had a client in Warrington who was being charged 10 times more than he should have been in a new premises for about 12 months. Luckily we recovered all the overcharge but had it been going on for many years, we would not have succeeded in getting it all back. No one without ALL the information about the 2 supplies (all meter reads, contracts, old billing etc) can come to any firm conclusion on what might be owed. Sholing Ian
  • Score: 0

9:19am Tue 4 Jan 11

right-angle says...

In response to Newsreport's comment about inviting the newspaper in, it would seem that this is something that Ms Elliot seems to have plenty of experience in doing, as per some of the previous posts and a quick Google search.
I have little experience of business law or running a business either but I would expect that any serious business person would not set up a business without having a clearly defined business plan in place and be fully aware of what the operational and running costs of their business would be. With energy costs being one of the major areas of expenditure in any business, it goes without saying that these should be carefully considered and accounted for.
The point here is not that the electricity company have made an error (which they quite clearly have done) but that the customer has been aware of the error but chose not to bring it to the attention of the electricity company, either through carelessness or forgetfulness or else through a deliberate attempt to not pay for what they knew they were rightfully using. As I mentioned above, if the customer was only using 6 lights and a single freezer, why did they not think to query why they were paying £400 per quarter? Possibly because they knew that they were using well in excess of this amount per quarter? Or possibly because they thought that the cost of operating 6 lights and a single freezer would quite reasonably be £400 per quarter? (Would be interesting to know what their domestic electricity bill was, assuming they have more than 6 lights and a single freezer at home, and if they thought this reasonable too).
I’m certainly no fan of the energy companies and I object strongly to the continuously rising costs of energy but this argument is not about the ridiculous price of energy but more about the fact that this is a bill for something used that should well and truly have been accounted for by the operator of the business and queried long before now. I’m quite sure any responsible business operator would not continue paying above their planned expenditure for so long without querying it so it follows that they should not continue paying below their planned expenditure without realising the consequences. The electricity company concerned have reduced the amount due by nearly £30,000 which represents a considerable admission of blame on their part and effectively means that Ms Elliot should have a substantial amount of spare cash floating about (assuming her budget was carefully calculated, as it would be if a responsible business person) with which to immediately pay for the half of what she has actually used and have the remainder to reinvest in the business. If not, maybe go back to business school?
On the note about the supermarket undercharging you and trying to reclaim the underpayment at a later point – goods purchased in a supermarket are paid for before they are consumed so the contract is made at the point of sale and can’t be amended after payment has been made and the goods consumed, unlike electricity which is generally used or consumed prior to payment being made and therefore usually involves either a signed or deemed contract to pay for what you have actually used.
In response to Newsreport's comment about inviting the newspaper in, it would seem that this is something that Ms Elliot seems to have plenty of experience in doing, as per some of the previous posts and a quick Google search. I have little experience of business law or running a business either but I would expect that any serious business person would not set up a business without having a clearly defined business plan in place and be fully aware of what the operational and running costs of their business would be. With energy costs being one of the major areas of expenditure in any business, it goes without saying that these should be carefully considered and accounted for. The point here is not that the electricity company have made an error (which they quite clearly have done) but that the customer has been aware of the error but chose not to bring it to the attention of the electricity company, either through carelessness or forgetfulness or else through a deliberate attempt to not pay for what they knew they were rightfully using. As I mentioned above, if the customer was only using 6 lights and a single freezer, why did they not think to query why they were paying £400 per quarter? Possibly because they knew that they were using well in excess of this amount per quarter? Or possibly because they thought that the cost of operating 6 lights and a single freezer would quite reasonably be £400 per quarter? (Would be interesting to know what their domestic electricity bill was, assuming they have more than 6 lights and a single freezer at home, and if they thought this reasonable too). I’m certainly no fan of the energy companies and I object strongly to the continuously rising costs of energy but this argument is not about the ridiculous price of energy but more about the fact that this is a bill for something used that should well and truly have been accounted for by the operator of the business and queried long before now. I’m quite sure any responsible business operator would not continue paying above their planned expenditure for so long without querying it so it follows that they should not continue paying below their planned expenditure without realising the consequences. The electricity company concerned have reduced the amount due by nearly £30,000 which represents a considerable admission of blame on their part and effectively means that Ms Elliot should have a substantial amount of spare cash floating about (assuming her budget was carefully calculated, as it would be if a responsible business person) with which to immediately pay for the half of what she has actually used and have the remainder to reinvest in the business. If not, maybe go back to business school? On the note about the supermarket undercharging you and trying to reclaim the underpayment at a later point – goods purchased in a supermarket are paid for before they are consumed so the contract is made at the point of sale and can’t be amended after payment has been made and the goods consumed, unlike electricity which is generally used or consumed prior to payment being made and therefore usually involves either a signed or deemed contract to pay for what you have actually used. right-angle
  • Score: 0

9:38am Tue 4 Jan 11

Newsreport says...

Yes but as stated earlier, the energy company haven't reduced the bill significantly by a way of accepting responsibility but as required by law.
Yes but as stated earlier, the energy company haven't reduced the bill significantly by a way of accepting responsibility but as required by law. Newsreport
  • Score: 0

9:47am Tue 4 Jan 11

right-angle says...

Required by law for a domestic customer, not a business customer.
Required by law for a domestic customer, not a business customer. right-angle
  • Score: 0

10:14am Tue 4 Jan 11

Lifeinthemix says...

well you are tied up in all things statute, so keep it out of statutes...
well you are tied up in all things statute, so keep it out of statutes... Lifeinthemix
  • Score: 0

11:42am Tue 4 Jan 11

Sholing Ian says...

Yes, the business user has no protection in consumer law unless his use is domestic in size when he may be defined as a micro-business user. the domestic user even has an Energy Ombudsman to call on. The business user is supposed to use the law courts - but , of course, the energy suppliers often threaten disconnection and charging absolutely extortionate out-of-contract rates during the period when the dispute is being "discussed". This may well force the user to pay up simply to keep his business going.
Yes, the business user has no protection in consumer law unless his use is domestic in size when he may be defined as a micro-business user. the domestic user even has an Energy Ombudsman to call on. The business user is supposed to use the law courts - but , of course, the energy suppliers often threaten disconnection and charging absolutely extortionate out-of-contract rates during the period when the dispute is being "discussed". This may well force the user to pay up simply to keep his business going. Sholing Ian
  • Score: 0

10:05am Wed 5 Jan 11

adamdesk says...

Want defrosted lollies and defrosted ice cream?
yes here comes the red Walls van.

better start to save on electric if you cant cope
Want defrosted lollies and defrosted ice cream? yes here comes the red Walls van. better start to save on electric if you cant cope adamdesk
  • Score: 0

9:34am Thu 6 Jan 11

WittonPark says...

I moved in to a new house with a water meter.
I'd never had a water meter before, but understood that my bill would almost certainly be higher than it was under the old system in my old house.
It dropped by around 50%.
I contacted United Utlities and asked them to check.
Faulty meter - sorted - no back charge because I had done the right thing.
I am now paying the correct amount.

As has already been mentioned no here, the company must have had some idea that their energy bill was dramatically below budget.After all it is £6000 p.a. under charged.
They have been around since 1975 and had historical bills to go off - their accountants would surely have highlighted the big drop at their first year end.

Also there must be something wrong somewhere if both units are similar.

The company has responded several times on here - well which unit do you charge up your vans from?
Is there a 3rd unit? One unit must take the hit of the vans being charged.

EON have made a blunder - of that there is no doubt - but just like we hear about people being accidentally overcharged and getting refunds, then when they are accidentally undercharged it would seem right that EON can recoup at least part of that.

I note that the latest is now £10K to be repaid on the drip for 18 months and they still do protest.

I would think they should be quietly accepting, thanking EON for their consideration and moving on now.
I moved in to a new house with a water meter. I'd never had a water meter before, but understood that my bill would almost certainly be higher than it was under the old system in my old house. It dropped by around 50%. I contacted United Utlities and asked them to check. Faulty meter - sorted - no back charge because I had done the right thing. I am now paying the correct amount. As has already been mentioned no here, the company must have had some idea that their energy bill was dramatically below budget.After all it is £6000 p.a. under charged. They have been around since 1975 and had historical bills to go off - their accountants would surely have highlighted the big drop at their first year end. Also there must be something wrong somewhere if both units are similar. The company has responded several times on here - well which unit do you charge up your vans from? Is there a 3rd unit? One unit must take the hit of the vans being charged. EON have made a blunder - of that there is no doubt - but just like we hear about people being accidentally overcharged and getting refunds, then when they are accidentally undercharged it would seem right that EON can recoup at least part of that. I note that the latest is now £10K to be repaid on the drip for 18 months and they still do protest. I would think they should be quietly accepting, thanking EON for their consideration and moving on now. WittonPark
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Thu 6 Jan 11

Sholing Ian says...

Hmm so Eon have offered £11k and an extended period to pay. If I were the user, I would be looking at settling this one. Their use of the media to get publicity seems to have been successfull but in my experience if you push utility suppliers too far, they can get nasty and they have deep pockets to pursue litigation if they decide to do so.
However, the ongoing electricity billing should now be coming in on the corrected basis and at a much higher quarterly cost so this needs to be considered as well. Mid winter must be a bleak time for ice-cream sales so times may be hard.

No doubt United Utilities will also review all the meter settings in this little Business Park so anyone getting cheap leccy in the vicinity might not do so much longer!
Hmm so Eon have offered £11k and an extended period to pay. If I were the user, I would be looking at settling this one. Their use of the media to get publicity seems to have been successfull but in my experience if you push utility suppliers too far, they can get nasty and they have deep pockets to pursue litigation if they decide to do so. However, the ongoing electricity billing should now be coming in on the corrected basis and at a much higher quarterly cost so this needs to be considered as well. Mid winter must be a bleak time for ice-cream sales so times may be hard. No doubt United Utilities will also review all the meter settings in this little Business Park so anyone getting cheap leccy in the vicinity might not do so much longer! Sholing Ian
  • Score: 0

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