Prison instead of community orders - East Lancs MP

Blackburn Citizen: Prison instead of community orders - East Lancs MP Prison instead of community orders - East Lancs MP

CALLS have been made to threaten offenders with ‘a day or two in prison’ if they breach a community order to cut rates of re-offending.

The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) think tank, set up by Conservative cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith, urged the government to consider the idea in a new report.

The report said that a third of people given community sentences re-offended within a year.

Community sentences, where an offender is spared jail, range from 300 hours unpaid work to voluntary addiction treatment or having to make amends to a victim.

The CSJ report found 17,066 people had their sentence in the community scrapped because they failed to comply with requirements.

And it said almost 28,000 offenders given community orders had at least 15 previous cautions or convictions.

CSJ deputy policy director Edward Boyd said: "Many prolific offenders are refusing to take their punishment and rehabilitation seriously and are getting away with it."

Community sentences can be given for crimes including criminal damage, benefit fraud and assault.

The idea is already widely used in America.

In twenty states, offenders who fail to turn up for community work can be imprisoned for up to three days.

Jake Berry, MP for Rossendale and Darwen, welcomed the idea.

He said: “I think it’s certainly something we should look at exploring.

“Community orders should never be a soft option and if people can’t stick to these orders then absolutely an alternative should be one or two days in prison, rather than a community order that they just ignore.

“I completely support it.”

The Ministry of Justice said it was determined to reduce re-offending.

Justice Minister Jeremy Wright said: "Anyone who refuses to complete their community sentence can expect to be hauled back in front of a judge and face further punishment."

Comments (11)

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8:25pm Sat 17 May 14

woolywords says...

Idiot!
Community orders were designed to be the 'soft' option to prison.
If they fail to complete the order, send them to jail for the FULL period of the sentence that they should have in the first place.
Idiot! Community orders were designed to be the 'soft' option to prison. If they fail to complete the order, send them to jail for the FULL period of the sentence that they should have in the first place. woolywords
  • Score: 14

9:57pm Sat 17 May 14

Steven Seagull says...

woolywords wrote:
Idiot!
Community orders were designed to be the 'soft' option to prison.
If they fail to complete the order, send them to jail for the FULL period of the sentence that they should have in the first place.
Good speech Woolywords.
[quote][p][bold]woolywords[/bold] wrote: Idiot! Community orders were designed to be the 'soft' option to prison. If they fail to complete the order, send them to jail for the FULL period of the sentence that they should have in the first place.[/p][/quote]Good speech Woolywords. Steven Seagull
  • Score: 2

11:06pm Sat 17 May 14

Benjy123 says...

Oh hello? Must be elections coming up. Woolywords has it right. But I am a little confused Mr. Berry. Doesn't prison cost money? I don't think your Superiors would like the talk of public expense. Unless they have shares in G4S perhaps?
Oh hello? Must be elections coming up. Woolywords has it right. But I am a little confused Mr. Berry. Doesn't prison cost money? I don't think your Superiors would like the talk of public expense. Unless they have shares in G4S perhaps? Benjy123
  • Score: 3

8:47am Sun 18 May 14

HarryBosch says...

I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option.
I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option. HarryBosch
  • Score: -2

8:56am Sun 18 May 14

woolywords says...

Election?...are you having a giraffe?
It's so hard to define which buffoon is the worst of them...
If I wrote in these columns that, 'if you come here, you should learn the language of the country and you should respect its laws and its culture', the voting system would break, with the numbers of negative votes but when Sajid Javid, the Culture Secretary says it, it's OK.
Will the Police be knocking on his door, to have a word with him about his racial slurs? I don't think so myself.
Election?...are you having a giraffe? It's so hard to define which buffoon is the worst of them... If I wrote in these columns that, 'if you come here, you should learn the language of the country and you should respect its laws and its culture', the voting system would break, with the numbers of negative votes but when Sajid Javid, the Culture Secretary says it, it's OK. Will the Police be knocking on his door, to have a word with him about his racial slurs? I don't think so myself. woolywords
  • Score: 4

9:55am Sun 18 May 14

crusade to find the truth from the brown stuff says...

Can def tell elections are coming up with mp's giving their tough opinions. The problem is the courts and prison systems. Magistrates courts are to soft, people appear who are on suspended sentences with another offence and instead of jail they are given another suspended sentence, a joke with no deterrent! Magistrates are not fully trained legal professionals and this can be seen with the lottery of verdicts they give! On the tiger hand magistrates are under pressure from the prisons to find alternative sentences as there is no room in prisons! We need to build more prisons as most people who appear before a magistrate or go to prison are career criminals and best place for them to stop them offending is PRISON! Need to get some American super prisons built
Can def tell elections are coming up with mp's giving their tough opinions. The problem is the courts and prison systems. Magistrates courts are to soft, people appear who are on suspended sentences with another offence and instead of jail they are given another suspended sentence, a joke with no deterrent! Magistrates are not fully trained legal professionals and this can be seen with the lottery of verdicts they give! On the tiger hand magistrates are under pressure from the prisons to find alternative sentences as there is no room in prisons! We need to build more prisons as most people who appear before a magistrate or go to prison are career criminals and best place for them to stop them offending is PRISON! Need to get some American super prisons built crusade to find the truth from the brown stuff
  • Score: 1

1:41pm Sun 18 May 14

the white witch says...

British prisons should be like the american prisons, harsh, hard and there to learn offenders a lesson, not like british prisons or should i say prison hotels, It`s time this country woke up and made it plain that if you do the crime you WILL do the time. Maybe if british prisons got harsher then there might be, just might be less chance of offenders re-offending once released from jail.
British prisons should be like the american prisons, harsh, hard and there to learn offenders a lesson, not like british prisons or should i say prison hotels, It`s time this country woke up and made it plain that if you do the crime you WILL do the time. Maybe if british prisons got harsher then there might be, just might be less chance of offenders re-offending once released from jail. the white witch
  • Score: 9

1:43pm Sun 18 May 14

AnthonyUK says...

HarryBosch wrote:
I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option.
In these rehab units it would have to be tough with NO OPTION to have the right to back out with a threat of prison over their heads for non compliance or refusal to comply. That way the punishment only gets tougher if the offenders refuse to play ball.
[quote][p][bold]HarryBosch[/bold] wrote: I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option.[/p][/quote]In these rehab units it would have to be tough with NO OPTION to have the right to back out with a threat of prison over their heads for non compliance or refusal to comply. That way the punishment only gets tougher if the offenders refuse to play ball. AnthonyUK
  • Score: 2

2:39pm Sun 18 May 14

HarryBosch says...

AnthonyUK wrote:
HarryBosch wrote:
I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option.
In these rehab units it would have to be tough with NO OPTION to have the right to back out with a threat of prison over their heads for non compliance or refusal to comply. That way the punishment only gets tougher if the offenders refuse to play ball.
The actual conditions would need to be investigated but we need to at least open up a debate on the need for such places. Your comment is, in this case, valued, but it would have to be bourne in mind that any such establishments would need to be of a therapeutic nature but there would also need to be some sort of incentive to keep inmates motivated. A carrot and stick approach perhaps. I envisage these models being similar to hospitals like Broadmoor, ie a secure prison type estate but staffed by NHS nurses/councillors. The whole point being that rehabilitation does work, when people actually stick it out. The current success rate is low because people pull out when it becomes difficult. If the option of leaving was taken away the success rate would greatly improve. IMHO
[quote][p][bold]AnthonyUK[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HarryBosch[/bold] wrote: I don't think this is such a good idea. And in some ways woolywords has it right. One or two days in prison isn't going to much of a deterrent to most offenders who see prison as an occupational hazard. IMO the majority of crime in this country is being committed by people with drug addictions and are commiting accuisatory crime to fund their addiction. The government needs to focus more on rehabilitation, but rehabilitation which has a greater chance of working. We need to investigate the introduction of secure rehabilitation units as a sentencing option. The rehabilitation units currently available have a far too high drop out rate. When the going gets tough the weak pull out. In a secure environment that wouldn't be an option. I think even the addicts who really want to get clean would support this option.[/p][/quote]In these rehab units it would have to be tough with NO OPTION to have the right to back out with a threat of prison over their heads for non compliance or refusal to comply. That way the punishment only gets tougher if the offenders refuse to play ball.[/p][/quote]The actual conditions would need to be investigated but we need to at least open up a debate on the need for such places. Your comment is, in this case, valued, but it would have to be bourne in mind that any such establishments would need to be of a therapeutic nature but there would also need to be some sort of incentive to keep inmates motivated. A carrot and stick approach perhaps. I envisage these models being similar to hospitals like Broadmoor, ie a secure prison type estate but staffed by NHS nurses/councillors. The whole point being that rehabilitation does work, when people actually stick it out. The current success rate is low because people pull out when it becomes difficult. If the option of leaving was taken away the success rate would greatly improve. IMHO HarryBosch
  • Score: -1

11:44pm Sun 18 May 14

fireonthemountain says...

Well , the first thing to do is to ensure that going to prison is a punishment .

Now I'm not advocating a Russian-style-prison of no visitors , no mail , no elecricity . I'm not recommending breaking rocks , on the treadmill , on a diet of bread and gruel .

I am recommending , as I think Jake Berry is , of the "short sharp shock" treatment - a few days inside to show the horror of what being inside is really like . This has to be coupled with the absolute certainty of being punished if caught .

For example - steal a car - one year in jail - no remission ,

Not having any experience (thank goodness) I fail to see why prisons appear to be virtual holiday camps , awash with drugs , three square meals a day . snooker , sky tv and nothing to pay for .

Rehabilitation - yes , all in favour of , but it has to be coupled with the
alternative of back-you-go-sunshine . No ifs , no buts .

Now - perhaps off topic - my apologies .

Has anyone any knowledge or information of anything Jack Straw's son is on any political view or opinion of what he will do for Darwen ?

At least Jake gets involved .
Well , the first thing to do is to ensure that going to prison is a punishment . Now I'm not advocating a Russian-style-prison of no visitors , no mail , no elecricity . I'm not recommending breaking rocks , on the treadmill , on a diet of bread and gruel . I am recommending , as I think Jake Berry is , of the "short sharp shock" treatment - a few days inside to show the horror of what being inside is really like . This has to be coupled with the absolute certainty of being punished if caught . For example - steal a car - one year in jail - no remission , Not having any experience (thank goodness) I fail to see why prisons appear to be virtual holiday camps , awash with drugs , three square meals a day . snooker , sky tv and nothing to pay for . Rehabilitation - yes , all in favour of , but it has to be coupled with the alternative of back-you-go-sunshine . No ifs , no buts . Now - perhaps off topic - my apologies . Has anyone any knowledge or information of anything Jack Straw's son is on any political view or opinion of what he will do for Darwen ? At least Jake gets involved . fireonthemountain
  • Score: 2

11:49pm Sun 18 May 14

fireonthemountain says...

My penultimate paragraph was atrociously bad English ! Sorry !!
My penultimate paragraph was atrociously bad English ! Sorry !! fireonthemountain
  • Score: 0

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