East Lancs teachers would rather drive buses and stack shelves

Blackburn Citizen: Simon Jones Simon Jones

TEACHERS in East Lancashire are leaving the profession to become bus drivers, cleaners and builders.

Union leaders said many teachers were finding other types of work or leaving with no job to go to at all.

Lancashire’s and Blackburn with Darwen’s representatives Simon Jones, from the NUT, and Claire Ward, from NASUWT, said the phenomenon had become common.

The news comes as schools are set to be hit by a teachers' strike on Wednesday March 26 in a dispute over pay, pensions and conditions.

NUT leader Simon Jones said: “I must speak to three or four people a week who have decided to quit. One of the most common things now searched for on our website is how to leave the profession.

“I have represented people who were leaving to become cleaners. I know former members are working as builders and at least one is working as a bus driver.

“There is nothing wrong with these jobs but it isn’t what they studied long and hard to do for a living. These people were very dedicated to the profession but the pressure came to be too much.

“The most common thing being said in staff rooms at the moment is ‘I would rather stack shelves’.”

NASUWT’s Claire Ward said: “I have spoken to many people who have just had to leave and have taken any job they can.

“They will take very basic office jobs or leave with no job at all. I know some of my members who have gone on to work in supermarkets.

“A lot of teachers continue to do private tuition in the evenings, but for a day job they will do anything else.

“One new teacher, who had been judged as Outstanding in her lessons, left in her second year because she was going in seven days a week. She was going into school on a Sunday just to keep up with the demand. The pressure is ridiculous.”

National figures show two-fifths of newly qualified teachers leave the profession within five years, described as a ‘national scandal’ by Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw.

A teachers survey by NASUWT last year found that teachers' top four concerns about their jobs were workload, government changes to pensions, pay and school inspections. It found over half of teachers were considering leaving teaching altogether.

However the Department for Education says more top graduates and professionals than ever before are coming into teaching.

Comments (14)

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4:16pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Mothernature says...

Seriously, you expect us to believe a teacher is going to give up an income of over £20,000 a year to work as a cleaner, usually minimum rate & part time hours.
Seriously, you expect us to believe a teacher is going to give up an income of over £20,000 a year to work as a cleaner, usually minimum rate & part time hours. Mothernature
  • Score: -11

4:55pm Tue 18 Mar 14

charmed-one says...

Mothernature wrote:
Seriously, you expect us to believe a teacher is going to give up an income of over £20,000 a year to work as a cleaner, usually minimum rate & part time hours.
Yes, actually, and I'm one of them. Anything is better than being a teacher nowadays. The majority of people I went to college with, have also quit the profession.
[quote][p][bold]Mothernature[/bold] wrote: Seriously, you expect us to believe a teacher is going to give up an income of over £20,000 a year to work as a cleaner, usually minimum rate & part time hours.[/p][/quote]Yes, actually, and I'm one of them. Anything is better than being a teacher nowadays. The majority of people I went to college with, have also quit the profession. charmed-one
  • Score: 12

5:55pm Tue 18 Mar 14

burner says...

MotherN, take time to talk to a teacher.
MotherN, take time to talk to a teacher. burner
  • Score: 7

7:22pm Tue 18 Mar 14

turbo5 says...

Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus.
Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have.
If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ?
Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus. Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have. If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ? turbo5
  • Score: -3

8:01pm Tue 18 Mar 14

charmed-one says...

turbo5 wrote:
Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus.
Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have.
If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ?
I wish I only taught 20 hours a week! Try being in school from 8-6 most days, running breakfast clubs, lunchtime clubs and after school clubs. Then meetings with outside agencies regarding children in your class, staff meetings, school events, putting displays up, making resources.... Then when you finally get home, you still have 3-4 hours of work that you didn't have time to do during the day. Oh, don't forget planning lessons that need to be differentiated for all the differing abilities...then assessing each lesson and child's work to inform future planning. There aren't enough hours in the week to fit the curriculum in, so you're constantly playing catch up. Then there's the mounds of assessment statistics that need to be updated and used to inform planning.
I could go on, but I won't. At the moment teachers have no work/life balance. They are pushed to the limit. Weekends and holidays are used to catch up and prepare for the next term. When you work out an hourly rate for the time spent working during the whole year, it isn't much more than the minimum wage. I'd rather work for minimum wage, knowing I could have a life outside of work, than work till I dropped in a profession where people who have never taught slag you off at every opportunity.
[quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus. Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have. If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ?[/p][/quote]I wish I only taught 20 hours a week! Try being in school from 8-6 most days, running breakfast clubs, lunchtime clubs and after school clubs. Then meetings with outside agencies regarding children in your class, staff meetings, school events, putting displays up, making resources.... Then when you finally get home, you still have 3-4 hours of work that you didn't have time to do during the day. Oh, don't forget planning lessons that need to be differentiated for all the differing abilities...then assessing each lesson and child's work to inform future planning. There aren't enough hours in the week to fit the curriculum in, so you're constantly playing catch up. Then there's the mounds of assessment statistics that need to be updated and used to inform planning. I could go on, but I won't. At the moment teachers have no work/life balance. They are pushed to the limit. Weekends and holidays are used to catch up and prepare for the next term. When you work out an hourly rate for the time spent working during the whole year, it isn't much more than the minimum wage. I'd rather work for minimum wage, knowing I could have a life outside of work, than work till I dropped in a profession where people who have never taught slag you off at every opportunity. charmed-one
  • Score: 11

8:20pm Tue 18 Mar 14

turbo5 says...

The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ! turbo5
  • Score: 2

8:28pm Tue 18 Mar 14

charmed-one says...

turbo5 wrote:
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it.
I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.
[quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ![/p][/quote]Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it. I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected. charmed-one
  • Score: 4

9:00pm Tue 18 Mar 14

Rich Riley says...

charmed-one wrote:
turbo5 wrote:
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it.
I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.
Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.
[quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ![/p][/quote]Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it. I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.[/p][/quote]Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning. Rich Riley
  • Score: -2

9:02pm Tue 18 Mar 14

burner says...

I can say, from family experience, that teaching in 2014 is NOTHING like it was twenty or even 10 years ago,
.
Teachers can only hope to advance their pay if their charges perform way beyond expectations. The demands made by the GovermentS, through their agents, would have every child achieve University standard by 17 when, dear reader, you know that some attain greatness whereas most fail spectacularly in life for a wide variety of reasons.
.
If it were industry, you would procure a supply of better raw material . . . quickly !! An educator has to make do with the kids who turn up on the day.
I can say, from family experience, that teaching in 2014 is NOTHING like it was twenty or even 10 years ago, . Teachers can only hope to advance their pay if their charges perform way beyond expectations. The demands made by the GovermentS, through their agents, would have every child achieve University standard by 17 when, dear reader, you know that some attain greatness whereas most fail spectacularly in life for a wide variety of reasons. . If it were industry, you would procure a supply of better raw material . . . quickly !! An educator has to make do with the kids who turn up on the day. burner
  • Score: 3

11:01pm Tue 18 Mar 14

charmed-one says...

Rich Riley wrote:
charmed-one wrote:
turbo5 wrote:
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it.
I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.
Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.
I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like.
[quote][p][bold]Rich Riley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ![/p][/quote]Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it. I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.[/p][/quote]Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.[/p][/quote]I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like. charmed-one
  • Score: 8

11:49pm Tue 18 Mar 14

turbo5 says...

charmed-one wrote:
Rich Riley wrote:
charmed-one wrote:
turbo5 wrote:
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it.
I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.
Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.
I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like.
How do you know people don't have a clue what the job is like? assumptions made by you ! we have all been pupils, we have kids at school and interact with the teachers on a weekly basis. some people help out at schools, do part time lecturing or have been teachers themselves.
I also notice when dropping off at pre-school very few if any teachers cars are on the car park at 8.00am and definately none at 6pm when I am picking up from after school. (private staff run not teachers) And thats not unique I work next to one of the large secondary schools in Burnley and it's the same there.
With exam results of around 32% of pupils gaining 5 or more GCSE's I have to question whether some teachers are competent. that's 68% of kids leaving school with a sub-standard education what chance do they have of finding employment ? especialy when they are competing for bus drivers /builders and cleaners jobs with teachers.
The all teaching process needs to be revamped. perhaps Gove was right !
[quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rich Riley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ![/p][/quote]Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it. I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.[/p][/quote]Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.[/p][/quote]I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like.[/p][/quote]How do you know people don't have a clue what the job is like? assumptions made by you ! we have all been pupils, we have kids at school and interact with the teachers on a weekly basis. some people help out at schools, do part time lecturing or have been teachers themselves. I also notice when dropping off at pre-school very few if any teachers cars are on the car park at 8.00am and definately none at 6pm when I am picking up from after school. (private staff run not teachers) And thats not unique I work next to one of the large secondary schools in Burnley and it's the same there. With exam results of around 32% of pupils gaining 5 or more GCSE's I have to question whether some teachers are competent. that's 68% of kids leaving school with a sub-standard education what chance do they have of finding employment ? especialy when they are competing for bus drivers /builders and cleaners jobs with teachers. The all teaching process needs to be revamped. perhaps Gove was right ! turbo5
  • Score: -6

12:21am Wed 19 Mar 14

charmed-one says...

turbo5 wrote:
charmed-one wrote:
Rich Riley wrote:
charmed-one wrote:
turbo5 wrote:
The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks.
Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers.
When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ?
I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike !
Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it.
I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.
Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.
I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like.
How do you know people don't have a clue what the job is like? assumptions made by you ! we have all been pupils, we have kids at school and interact with the teachers on a weekly basis. some people help out at schools, do part time lecturing or have been teachers themselves.
I also notice when dropping off at pre-school very few if any teachers cars are on the car park at 8.00am and definately none at 6pm when I am picking up from after school. (private staff run not teachers) And thats not unique I work next to one of the large secondary schools in Burnley and it's the same there.
With exam results of around 32% of pupils gaining 5 or more GCSE's I have to question whether some teachers are competent. that's 68% of kids leaving school with a sub-standard education what chance do they have of finding employment ? especialy when they are competing for bus drivers /builders and cleaners jobs with teachers.
The all teaching process needs to be revamped. perhaps Gove was right !
As teachers are told what to teach, and have to implement every new initiative going, perhaps Gove could actually be wrong? Or could you accept that some failures are not of teachers' making? Teachers deal with children, it is not an assembly line where each end result is the same. It isn't easy teaching children who don't have the basic speech and language skills when they start. Or those who get no support at home. And it's incredibly difficult to ensure learning takes place when faced with constant bad behaviour. The whole class suffers then, but the heads I have worked for, are far happier when the badly behaved children remain in class, rather than becoming their problem.
I can assure you that there are an awful lot of schools where most teachers are in from 8-6. However, many teachers are also parents and try to spend as much time with their families as possible, particularly if they have young children.
[quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rich Riley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]charmed-one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: The reason why the public ''slag them off'' is because of their attitude and arrogance regarding how hard they work. You have listed various activities that teachers undertake as though nobody else in the working world has had to endure these hardious tasks. Every job has its positives and negatives, do Policemen like attending murder scenes ? do ambulance drivers like attending road traffic accidents with fatalities ? do soldiers like to see their mates killed or maimed or risk losing their lives ? So I am sorry if you feel you are hard done to but there are a lot more people in the public sector who are in the same boat as you (pay freeze and losing rights) and have far worse working conditions than teachers. When you make your career choices you make them based on teh job, are you saying that that your working conditions were a shock to you ? I wonder how you would feel do if you or a loved one had road traffic accident, only to be told the fire brigade are on strike, the ambulance wont be turning up and there will be no doctors or nurses to treat your wounds because they are on a strike ![/p][/quote]Let's just say when I entered the profession, I didn't expect to spend more time on pointless paperwork than actual teaching time. Or to be verbally and physically abused by children and parents and expected to take it. I have a lot of support for the professions you pointed out, but when they signed up, they knew what might be expected.[/p][/quote]Resign if you're not up to it, it's simple. Life if full of choices. You choose what car you drive, where you live, who you're friends with, and which career path to take. If you don't like what your trade has become then move on and find something you're happy with and save us all the moaning.[/p][/quote]I actually left teaching 2 years ago. It was the best move I ever made. However I still have health issues related to all the stress and demands I was under. As for the 'moaning', I wouldn't do it if people who had never taught, stopped criticising teachers when they don't have a clue what the job is like.[/p][/quote]How do you know people don't have a clue what the job is like? assumptions made by you ! we have all been pupils, we have kids at school and interact with the teachers on a weekly basis. some people help out at schools, do part time lecturing or have been teachers themselves. I also notice when dropping off at pre-school very few if any teachers cars are on the car park at 8.00am and definately none at 6pm when I am picking up from after school. (private staff run not teachers) And thats not unique I work next to one of the large secondary schools in Burnley and it's the same there. With exam results of around 32% of pupils gaining 5 or more GCSE's I have to question whether some teachers are competent. that's 68% of kids leaving school with a sub-standard education what chance do they have of finding employment ? especialy when they are competing for bus drivers /builders and cleaners jobs with teachers. The all teaching process needs to be revamped. perhaps Gove was right ![/p][/quote]As teachers are told what to teach, and have to implement every new initiative going, perhaps Gove could actually be wrong? Or could you accept that some failures are not of teachers' making? Teachers deal with children, it is not an assembly line where each end result is the same. It isn't easy teaching children who don't have the basic speech and language skills when they start. Or those who get no support at home. And it's incredibly difficult to ensure learning takes place when faced with constant bad behaviour. The whole class suffers then, but the heads I have worked for, are far happier when the badly behaved children remain in class, rather than becoming their problem. I can assure you that there are an awful lot of schools where most teachers are in from 8-6. However, many teachers are also parents and try to spend as much time with their families as possible, particularly if they have young children. charmed-one
  • Score: 5

3:30am Wed 19 Mar 14

Timefor says...

Thankfully, I'm not a teacher, but two of our "children" are and therefore I feel kind of qualified to comment at least on my observations.

For some years now it has been pretty obvious to me (and has led to some "interesting"(?!) discussions when those two come home) that there are clear major difference in the expectations/require
ments of government and those of teachers. As teachers, our two are very committed to developing "the child" by which I mean helping individual children learn how to figure out things for themselves. They and their schools/colleges continuously develop systems, strategies etc to try to do this, put in many hours over and above and both can point to successes.

On the other side (and, yes, sadly, it is seen as "the other side") we have the governments of whatever colour or flavour who are so obviously only truly and, perhaps, understandably, interested in two functions of education: the development of technical skills to try to ensure that we, as a country, have a skilled workforce available to industry; and the teaching of citizenship (read "social control" if you like). To further these aims, they develop bodies such as Ofsted who, in turn, develop their criteria to ensure that the government's requirements are being met. Problem!

Teachers (and many others who think about it) "know" that most of the people they teach today will not be employed in jobs which are around today and will in fact likely be employed in jobs which haven't even yet been dreamt of (as I understand it this phenomena currently affects somewhere around 70% of people in work/jobs and is not predicted to change too much). So, against this background, it is fairly easy to understand why they want to see the development of the individual as being fundamental.

When I've sat down with our two, got out, say, Ofsted requirements and evaluated these against their schools or colleges it has been fairly easy to identify massive gaps in performance, expectation and direction ie they and their workplaces are, too often, simply not doing what their ultimate employers (government) think that they should be doing. Both of ours find this a painful process and want to protest rights and wrongs. They have difficulty accepting the reality that whoever is paying calls the tune. This leads them to think of this as "stress" and no doubt it is but, I think, it is manageable, and teachers find themselves in the position of either conforming or moving on. Some choose to move on which is pretty honest and, I think, quite a mature position to take.

"Who's correct?" is the obvious question
Thankfully, I'm not a teacher, but two of our "children" are and therefore I feel kind of qualified to comment at least on my observations. For some years now it has been pretty obvious to me (and has led to some "interesting"(?!) discussions when those two come home) that there are clear major difference in the expectations/require ments of government and those of teachers. As teachers, our two are very committed to developing "the child" by which I mean helping individual children learn how to figure out things for themselves. They and their schools/colleges continuously develop systems, strategies etc to try to do this, put in many hours over and above and both can point to successes. On the other side (and, yes, sadly, it is seen as "the other side") we have the governments of whatever colour or flavour who are so obviously only truly and, perhaps, understandably, interested in two functions of education: the development of technical skills to try to ensure that we, as a country, have a skilled workforce available to industry; and the teaching of citizenship (read "social control" if you like). To further these aims, they develop bodies such as Ofsted who, in turn, develop their criteria to ensure that the government's requirements are being met. Problem! Teachers (and many others who think about it) "know" that most of the people they teach today will not be employed in jobs which are around today and will in fact likely be employed in jobs which haven't even yet been dreamt of (as I understand it this phenomena currently affects somewhere around 70% of people in work/jobs and is not predicted to change too much). So, against this background, it is fairly easy to understand why they want to see the development of the individual as being fundamental. When I've sat down with our two, got out, say, Ofsted requirements and evaluated these against their schools or colleges it has been fairly easy to identify massive gaps in performance, expectation and direction ie they and their workplaces are, too often, simply not doing what their ultimate employers (government) think that they should be doing. Both of ours find this a painful process and want to protest rights and wrongs. They have difficulty accepting the reality that whoever is paying calls the tune. This leads them to think of this as "stress" and no doubt it is but, I think, it is manageable, and teachers find themselves in the position of either conforming or moving on. Some choose to move on which is pretty honest and, I think, quite a mature position to take. "Who's correct?" is the obvious question Timefor
  • Score: 2

7:59pm Wed 19 Mar 14

turbo5 says...

Pommie Art wrote:
turbo5 wrote:
Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus.
Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have.
If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ?
turbo5
your talking out of your @rse mate: some of the problems for teaching staff is the attitude of parents & their brats of kids overworked & paper marking is part & parcel of the teaching profession. But morons like you & probably your brats contribute to the school problems. A for people having qualifications to become a builder have a look at the TV program Cowboy Builders everyone of them builders have NO qualifications at all.

i suppose your in the league of supporting teachers punishing children in class as long as its not your child. so put your brain into gear before your mouth. also where do you get the 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities. your a moron go to any school & ask to sit in class & observe if you have the mental ability to actually learn then you just have another opinion.
Abusive moron who can't hold a debate without resorting to insults and name calling. You know nothing about me or my family so keep your opinions for your next episode on Jezza Kyle to top up your benefits.
[quote][p][bold]Pommie Art[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]turbo5[/bold] wrote: Firstly how do they think they can become a builder, have they got the relvant qualifications ? A Degree in the arts isn't going to build a house or drive a bus. Most people are sick to death of hearing teachers whinging about how hard they work with lesson planning, homework marking, etc. They only teach in a clasroom 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities to do a basic weeks work. However any other profession at that level, Engineer, Accountant, Doctor etc would be working 50 hours plus and not have all the holidays these teachers have. If they care to take off their rose tinted glasses and look in the real world they will find most pensions have been affected, most people have endured pay freezes, Terms and conditions have been changed, zero hour contracts, minimum wages etc why do teachers think of themselves above everybody else ?[/p][/quote]turbo5 your talking out of your @rse mate: some of the problems for teaching staff is the attitude of parents & their brats of kids overworked & paper marking is part & parcel of the teaching profession. But morons like you & probably your brats contribute to the school problems. A for people having qualifications to become a builder have a look at the TV program Cowboy Builders everyone of them builders have NO qualifications at all. i suppose your in the league of supporting teachers punishing children in class as long as its not your child. so put your brain into gear before your mouth. also where do you get the 20 hours a week that leaves 17 hours for the other activities. your a moron go to any school & ask to sit in class & observe if you have the mental ability to actually learn then you just have another opinion.[/p][/quote]Abusive moron who can't hold a debate without resorting to insults and name calling. You know nothing about me or my family so keep your opinions for your next episode on Jezza Kyle to top up your benefits. turbo5
  • Score: 0

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