Carriages found for new East Lancashire train timetable

Blackburn Citizen: Carriages found for new East Lancashire train timetable Carriages found for new East Lancashire train timetable

TRAIN carriages have provisionally been found for the new East Lancashire to Manchester service, according to a council boss.

The reinstated Todmorden Curve, offering faster trains to the city from Blackburn, Burnley and Accrington, will not be in use from May, when new timetables begin, because of lack of rolling stock.

But town hall bosses in Burnley are confident a train is being earmarked for the route, which should cut travelling times by 40 minutes.

Borough council chief executive Steve Rumbelow (pictured) spoke out after it emerged that Trans-Pennine Express (TPE) trains were being redirected by their owners to Chiltern Railways, serving the Midlands and south-east.

TV reports suggested the decision may have a knock-on effect on the East Lancs to Manchester service, scheduled to begin this December. But Mr Rumbelow said he was not aware of any delays to the service.

He said: “The diesel units will be released in December and one of those units is allocated and funded for the new Burnley-Manchester direct service via the Todmorden Curve.

“We are confident the new Burnley service will not be affected by the reduction in the TPE fleet. ”

Rail officials have confirmed discussions are ongoing with the Department of Transport over releasing a diesel unit for the East Lancashire service.

Blackburn MP Jack Straw, Burnley MP Gordon Birtwistle and Hyndburn MP Graham Jones have been lobbying Transport Secretary Stephen Hammond about the service.

Trains would begin at Blackburn and call at Accrington, Rosegrove, Burnley Manchester Road and Todmorden en-route to Manchester.

Comments (17)

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9:32pm Fri 7 Mar 14

GrindletonBob says...

I guess it's too much to ask, for dare I say it, some new trains to be ordered for the north west and yes, I appreciate that even if an order was signed tomorrow it would be at least 18 months - 2 years before they appeared.
Most of the trains in current use were delivered in the late 1980's, with the small exception of those operated by Trans Pennine Express. As usual they're scrabbling around for someone else's cast offs although ironically the single Trans Pennine Express that is being sought will be the newest in Northern's ageing fleet.

That's Northern Rail who are partially owned by the Dutch State Railway (Abellio) who skim off the profits to subsidise the tickets on their state run system back home. Abellio is the international arm of the Dutch government rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen.Consider that next time you're stood at the ticket window spending a small fortune on a ticket for a Northern service!
I guess it's too much to ask, for dare I say it, some new trains to be ordered for the north west and yes, I appreciate that even if an order was signed tomorrow it would be at least 18 months - 2 years before they appeared. Most of the trains in current use were delivered in the late 1980's, with the small exception of those operated by Trans Pennine Express. As usual they're scrabbling around for someone else's cast offs although ironically the single Trans Pennine Express that is being sought will be the newest in Northern's ageing fleet. That's Northern Rail who are partially owned by the Dutch State Railway (Abellio) who skim off the profits to subsidise the tickets on their state run system back home. Abellio is the international arm of the Dutch government rail operator Nederlandse Spoorwegen.Consider that next time you're stood at the ticket window spending a small fortune on a ticket for a Northern service! GrindletonBob
  • Score: 8

9:40pm Fri 7 Mar 14

Bluelizzy says...

LET hang your head in shame.... no right to reply re the halal meat debate.
LET hang your head in shame.... no right to reply re the halal meat debate. Bluelizzy
  • Score: 12

10:08pm Fri 7 Mar 14

RoverLion says...

For East Lancashire rail travel we need more than 30 odd year old cast offs from train operating companies who have bothered to lease more modern stock.

Not only do we need new trains, but we need new timetables, new railway station facilities, a new franchise holder and a mop and bucket in order to clean the interiors of Northern Rail's squalid stock.

About eight years ago, the former BwD chief Graham Burgess bragged to business owners in Blackburn that East Lancashire will have a "high speed rail service to Manchester Airport" within five years and failing that the line to Bolton doubled. I've not held my breath.

So, the lack of political will and the area's willingness to put up with a third world railway service means a few more ancient diesel multiple units on the Todmorden curve is not much to cheer about.
For East Lancashire rail travel we need more than 30 odd year old cast offs from train operating companies who have bothered to lease more modern stock. Not only do we need new trains, but we need new timetables, new railway station facilities, a new franchise holder and a mop and bucket in order to clean the interiors of Northern Rail's squalid stock. About eight years ago, the former BwD chief Graham Burgess bragged to business owners in Blackburn that East Lancashire will have a "high speed rail service to Manchester Airport" within five years and failing that the line to Bolton doubled. I've not held my breath. So, the lack of political will and the area's willingness to put up with a third world railway service means a few more ancient diesel multiple units on the Todmorden curve is not much to cheer about. RoverLion
  • Score: 7

10:23pm Fri 7 Mar 14

GrindletonBob says...

Good point RoverLion about Northern not cleaning their carriages. I've seen cleaner floors in building site cabins on a wet and muddy day. Wipe your feet on the way OUT of a Northern train and roll up your socks around your trousers to avoid being bitten if any fleas can survive in the filthy carpets! Profit and shareholders before passenger comfort every time.

Bring Back British Rail
Good point RoverLion about Northern not cleaning their carriages. I've seen cleaner floors in building site cabins on a wet and muddy day. Wipe your feet on the way OUT of a Northern train and roll up your socks around your trousers to avoid being bitten if any fleas can survive in the filthy carpets! Profit and shareholders before passenger comfort every time. Bring Back British Rail GrindletonBob
  • Score: 9

11:37pm Fri 7 Mar 14

burner says...

the British Veterinary Association, has argued that killing animals by cutting their throats causes unnecessary suffering
the British Veterinary Association, has argued that killing animals by cutting their throats causes unnecessary suffering burner
  • Score: 11

11:47pm Fri 7 Mar 14

coxy78 says...

I wanted to comment on the halal meat but as per f@@king usual we can only comment on certain subjects as anything to do with Muslims the Lancashire telegraph does not allow u to have a say!!!!!
I wanted to comment on the halal meat but as per f@@king usual we can only comment on certain subjects as anything to do with Muslims the Lancashire telegraph does not allow u to have a say!!!!! coxy78
  • Score: 15

12:38pm Sat 8 Mar 14

vicn1956 says...

Were the carriages originally pulled by the Titfield Thunderbolt?
Were the carriages originally pulled by the Titfield Thunderbolt? vicn1956
  • Score: 2

5:29pm Sat 8 Mar 14

DaveBurnley says...

Don't Bangladesh have some old carriages they want to upgrade? Surely we'll take them, after all it's only Northern England and not the important Southern counties.
Don't Bangladesh have some old carriages they want to upgrade? Surely we'll take them, after all it's only Northern England and not the important Southern counties. DaveBurnley
  • Score: 3

6:09pm Sat 8 Mar 14

Noiticer says...

I bet that a Pacer is provided for the Todmorden service as they are cheap to hire but should have been condemned years ago. They were a creation of the Thatcher Government just in case people have forgotten that iconic person who is adored by Cameron and Co. You don't see Pacers in SE England - I wonder why not?
I bet that a Pacer is provided for the Todmorden service as they are cheap to hire but should have been condemned years ago. They were a creation of the Thatcher Government just in case people have forgotten that iconic person who is adored by Cameron and Co. You don't see Pacers in SE England - I wonder why not? Noiticer
  • Score: 1

7:26pm Sat 8 Mar 14

GrindletonBob says...

The Pacers are on borrowed time as try getting into one with a wheelchair. The step they have just inside the doors, similar to on the Leyland bus they were based on, means that they're not Disability Discrimination Act compliant.

Northern will probably at that point try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains from down south, or perhaps get those single carriage trains they already run (the Class 153) and break them in half to create two separate half carriage trains. Nothing would surprise me, if Northern ran buses they would send out 15 seater minibuses in the morning rush if they could get away with it.!
The Pacers are on borrowed time as try getting into one with a wheelchair. The step they have just inside the doors, similar to on the Leyland bus they were based on, means that they're not Disability Discrimination Act compliant. Northern will probably at that point try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains from down south, or perhaps get those single carriage trains they already run (the Class 153) and break them in half to create two separate half carriage trains. Nothing would surprise me, if Northern ran buses they would send out 15 seater minibuses in the morning rush if they could get away with it.! GrindletonBob
  • Score: 2

10:43pm Sat 8 Mar 14

Darwen Malc says...

GrindletonBob wrote:
The Pacers are on borrowed time as try getting into one with a wheelchair. The step they have just inside the doors, similar to on the Leyland bus they were based on, means that they're not Disability Discrimination Act compliant.

Northern will probably at that point try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains from down south, or perhaps get those single carriage trains they already run (the Class 153) and break them in half to create two separate half carriage trains. Nothing would surprise me, if Northern ran buses they would send out 15 seater minibuses in the morning rush if they could get away with it.!
Sorry GB, but Northern won't try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains down South. They may well get some, but it wont be their choice, that is down to the DoT. Northern only got the franchise on the proviso that they had to make do with the stock that the then 'First North Western' had been running as they were the previous owners of the franchise. Ever since, they have asked for additional trains but only get what they are given. Plus, as they have had to make their maintenance facilities match their fleet, they are restricted on what types they can service, hence diesel classes 142, 150, 153, 155, 156 & 158s. The 142 pacers will have to be withdrawn by 2019 anyway as they cannot make them DDA compliant.
As for Noticers comments re Pacers, at the time they were introduced, passenger traffic had fallen to its lowest level in decades, and that wasn't down to Thatcher! The then existing Diesel Multiple Units were falling into disrepair and expensive to run and maintain. The Pacers were built as a cheap way of providing new stock in a partnership between British Leyland and British Rail for Regional Railways (a sector of British Rail), the same British Rail that GB wants to bring back (oh for a pair of your rose tinted spectacles).
[quote][p][bold]GrindletonBob[/bold] wrote: The Pacers are on borrowed time as try getting into one with a wheelchair. The step they have just inside the doors, similar to on the Leyland bus they were based on, means that they're not Disability Discrimination Act compliant. Northern will probably at that point try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains from down south, or perhaps get those single carriage trains they already run (the Class 153) and break them in half to create two separate half carriage trains. Nothing would surprise me, if Northern ran buses they would send out 15 seater minibuses in the morning rush if they could get away with it.![/p][/quote]Sorry GB, but Northern won't try to get their hands on some of the oldest trains down South. They may well get some, but it wont be their choice, that is down to the DoT. Northern only got the franchise on the proviso that they had to make do with the stock that the then 'First North Western' had been running as they were the previous owners of the franchise. Ever since, they have asked for additional trains but only get what they are given. Plus, as they have had to make their maintenance facilities match their fleet, they are restricted on what types they can service, hence diesel classes 142, 150, 153, 155, 156 & 158s. The 142 pacers will have to be withdrawn by 2019 anyway as they cannot make them DDA compliant. As for Noticers comments re Pacers, at the time they were introduced, passenger traffic had fallen to its lowest level in decades, and that wasn't down to Thatcher! The then existing Diesel Multiple Units were falling into disrepair and expensive to run and maintain. The Pacers were built as a cheap way of providing new stock in a partnership between British Leyland and British Rail for Regional Railways (a sector of British Rail), the same British Rail that GB wants to bring back (oh for a pair of your rose tinted spectacles). Darwen Malc
  • Score: 0

10:07am Sun 9 Mar 14

GrindletonBob says...

You're obviously well informed Darwen Malc, regarding the rolling stock issues and I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you regarding the hopeful return of British Rail!

Abellio, in a similar vein to DB, is using its UK franchises to feather its own nest back home. DB, for example, is well known to use the profits from its UK franchises such as Chiltern and Arriva to subsidise the state run railway back home in Germany. The privatised railway system in the UK now costs the tax payer around four times what British Rail cost it, yet even whilst this is happening, profits continue to be made by the private operators and continue to support shareholders and leave the UK to support other countries rail networks.

British Rail was far from perfect and I appreciate that the lack of rolling stock on Northern is more the making of the DfT refusing to approve new trains. However, I don't recall BR ever allowing rolling stock to leave depots in the filthy internal state that Northern often allows. That is only down to blatant cost cutting on carriage cleaning. An old train doesn't need to be a dirty train.

Northern would do well to put more of its efforts into enhancing the customer experience rather than wasting time on exercises such as placing the signage, "A Serco and Abellio Joint Venture" on each and every train! The general public probably couldn't care less who Abellio is, they're more interested in whether they can board a train to Bolton from Bromley Cross in the morning peak, for example.

The north west deserves a much better rail service, sadly under Northern, and indeed whichever profit hungry private operator replaces it, I doubt that this will happen. The railway needs to make profit to allow ongoing investment but this is all it should be used for and definitely not for shareholders or subsidising cheaper fares on foreign railways.
You're obviously well informed Darwen Malc, regarding the rolling stock issues and I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you regarding the hopeful return of British Rail! Abellio, in a similar vein to DB, is using its UK franchises to feather its own nest back home. DB, for example, is well known to use the profits from its UK franchises such as Chiltern and Arriva to subsidise the state run railway back home in Germany. The privatised railway system in the UK now costs the tax payer around four times what British Rail cost it, yet even whilst this is happening, profits continue to be made by the private operators and continue to support shareholders and leave the UK to support other countries rail networks. British Rail was far from perfect and I appreciate that the lack of rolling stock on Northern is more the making of the DfT refusing to approve new trains. However, I don't recall BR ever allowing rolling stock to leave depots in the filthy internal state that Northern often allows. That is only down to blatant cost cutting on carriage cleaning. An old train doesn't need to be a dirty train. Northern would do well to put more of its efforts into enhancing the customer experience rather than wasting time on exercises such as placing the signage, "A Serco and Abellio Joint Venture" on each and every train! The general public probably couldn't care less who Abellio is, they're more interested in whether they can board a train to Bolton from Bromley Cross in the morning peak, for example. The north west deserves a much better rail service, sadly under Northern, and indeed whichever profit hungry private operator replaces it, I doubt that this will happen. The railway needs to make profit to allow ongoing investment but this is all it should be used for and definitely not for shareholders or subsidising cheaper fares on foreign railways. GrindletonBob
  • Score: 0

10:43am Sun 9 Mar 14

Noiticer says...

The reason passenger numbers were falling in the 1980's was a result of a lack of government investment in the rail network and an emphasis on the 'great car economy' by the Thatcher Govt. who were anti-rail. Thatcher hated trains and railways.
The reason passenger numbers were falling in the 1980's was a result of a lack of government investment in the rail network and an emphasis on the 'great car economy' by the Thatcher Govt. who were anti-rail. Thatcher hated trains and railways. Noiticer
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Sun 9 Mar 14

tonygreaves says...

They will need more than "one train" to run the new service from Manchester to East Lancsa via the Tod Curve.

For an hourly service each way they would need three trains (they might do with a bit less by rostering the service with other services out of Manchester though they would still need at least three different trains running on the new service.)

Tony Greaves

By the way Northern Rail also use Class 144 Pacers (though perhaps not in the North West).
They will need more than "one train" to run the new service from Manchester to East Lancsa via the Tod Curve. For an hourly service each way they would need three trains (they might do with a bit less by rostering the service with other services out of Manchester though they would still need at least three different trains running on the new service.) Tony Greaves By the way Northern Rail also use Class 144 Pacers (though perhaps not in the North West). tonygreaves
  • Score: 1

2:20pm Sun 9 Mar 14

tonygreaves says...

I should also add that the December date for the availability of the clapped out Third World diesels for the Tod Curve service is far from certain. My understanding is that the extra stock is as a result of the newly electrified service between Manchester and Liverpool starting in December. But that is going to use more south of England cast-offs (Class 319s from existing ThamesLink services) that depends on Thameslink getting their brand new electric trains in time. There is some doubt that this will happen. There was also talk of the 25-year old 319s being refurbished (again) before coming north whcih would take time.

It is difficult to get the government (DfT) to come clean about these things
because they continue to spout the nonsense that train procurement is for the train operating companies to sor t out.

Tony Greaves
I should also add that the December date for the availability of the clapped out Third World diesels for the Tod Curve service is far from certain. My understanding is that the extra stock is as a result of the newly electrified service between Manchester and Liverpool starting in December. But that is going to use more south of England cast-offs (Class 319s from existing ThamesLink services) that depends on Thameslink getting their brand new electric trains in time. There is some doubt that this will happen. There was also talk of the 25-year old 319s being refurbished (again) before coming north whcih would take time. It is difficult to get the government (DfT) to come clean about these things because they continue to spout the nonsense that train procurement is for the train operating companies to sor t out. Tony Greaves tonygreaves
  • Score: 0

7:40pm Sun 9 Mar 14

Darren1951 says...

Ermm, excuse me, Mr/Ms LT reporter, but this service was ORIGINALLY scheduled to restart in MAY, not DECEMBER.
Ermm, excuse me, Mr/Ms LT reporter, but this service was ORIGINALLY scheduled to restart in MAY, not DECEMBER. Darren1951
  • Score: 0

10:20pm Sun 9 Mar 14

soup123 says...

Out of interest, how will journey times compare to that of the X43/X41 bus services from Burnley/Accrington?
Out of interest, how will journey times compare to that of the X43/X41 bus services from Burnley/Accrington? soup123
  • Score: 1

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