Rawtenstall bypass camera snaps 147 speeders

Blackburn Citizen: The camera in place on the A682 The camera in place on the A682

A SPEED camera on the Rawtenstall bypass caught more than one motorist speeding every minute, new figures have revealed.


Drivers travelling at speeds in excess of 60mph on the 40mph A682 were captured by the mobile speed camera over a two and a half hour period in October.


Most of the 147 drivers caught were travelling between 47mph – the speed required for prosecution in a 40mph zone – and 51mph, but 11 were seen going faster than 60mph, figures released under the Freedom of Information Act revealed.

One was at 70mph.


A spokesman for Lancashire police’s Pennine road policing unit said: “Reducing the number of people who are killed or injured on Lancashire’s roads is one of Lancashire Constabulary’s main priorities.


“We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured.


“However, whilst we carry out enforcement activity across the county on a daily basis in relation to speeding, we would also say that education, and therefore ultimately prevention, is key to making our roads safer.


“Many people who are caught speeding choose to pay to take a speed awareness course rather than pay a fine and take points on their licence, which is encouraging as we want to educate motorists on the consequences of speeding.”


The police van was in a layby, around 650m from a fixed speed camera on Haslingden Road, police said.


A traffic police officer in the van was using a hand-held speed gun.


The Lancashire Telegraph reported last month how Lancashire police used 122 East Lancashire sites for eight mobile speed camera vans from July to September.

Comments (23)

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11:26am Thu 5 Dec 13

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

Traffic Police DO NOT sit in these vans, they are occupied by civilian camera technicians. Get your facts right for once LT.
Traffic Police DO NOT sit in these vans, they are occupied by civilian camera technicians. Get your facts right for once LT. You're not mugging me off that easily

11:30am Thu 5 Dec 13

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

“We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured.


Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years.

Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from?
“We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured. Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years. Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from? You're not mugging me off that easily

11:44am Thu 5 Dec 13

shytalk says...

You're not mugging me off that easily wrote:
“We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured.


Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years.

Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from?
Personally i couldn't care less where they put them so long as they get speeding boy racers off the roads
[quote][p][bold]You're not mugging me off that easily[/bold] wrote: “We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured. Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years. Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from?[/p][/quote]Personally i couldn't care less where they put them so long as they get speeding boy racers off the roads shytalk

12:10pm Thu 5 Dec 13

HarryBosch says...

I have no sympathy with anyone caught committing offences in any of the areas which account for the vast majority of deaths or serious injuries on our roads. Known as the 'Fatal Four' these are Speeding, not wearing a seat belt, drink driving and mobile phone use.
Drivers need to take more responsibility for their driving, they not only put themselves at risk but they also put at risk the lives of other road users!
I have no sympathy with anyone caught committing offences in any of the areas which account for the vast majority of deaths or serious injuries on our roads. Known as the 'Fatal Four' these are Speeding, not wearing a seat belt, drink driving and mobile phone use. Drivers need to take more responsibility for their driving, they not only put themselves at risk but they also put at risk the lives of other road users! HarryBosch

1:15pm Thu 5 Dec 13

AnthonyUK says...

Boyracers and those high on weed/cannabis etc while driving deserve no empathy/sympathy or compassion and should face a lifetime driving ban for their moron behaviour.
Boyracers and those high on weed/cannabis etc while driving deserve no empathy/sympathy or compassion and should face a lifetime driving ban for their moron behaviour. AnthonyUK

1:28pm Thu 5 Dec 13

Excluded again says...

I drove along that road during this period.

I did not receive a fine. The speed limits were clearly marked and i stuck to them. Simples.
I drove along that road during this period. I did not receive a fine. The speed limits were clearly marked and i stuck to them. Simples. Excluded again

1:42pm Thu 5 Dec 13

You're not mugging me off that easily says...

shytalk wrote:
You're not mugging me off that easily wrote:
“We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured.


Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years.

Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from?
Personally i couldn't care less where they put them so long as they get speeding boy racers off the roads
When it cones to crime patterns the Police deploy resources according to where "hot spots" are which is understandable. Therefore why can't these camera vans be deployed to accident "hot spots" and not just where it's going to rake in the most dollar ?
[quote][p][bold]shytalk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]You're not mugging me off that easily[/bold] wrote: “We use speed cameras to enforce speed limits at locations with a history of collisions or where there are community concerns about speeding to reduce the number of people killed or injured. Ok then, when did you last see one parked on the Grane Road, or the A682 at Blacko towards Gisburn? 2 notoriously dangerous roads that have seen multiple fatal and serious collisions over the years. Why can't they just be honest and say we put them on these roads because that's where the best revenue will come from?[/p][/quote]Personally i couldn't care less where they put them so long as they get speeding boy racers off the roads[/p][/quote]When it cones to crime patterns the Police deploy resources according to where "hot spots" are which is understandable. Therefore why can't these camera vans be deployed to accident "hot spots" and not just where it's going to rake in the most dollar ? You're not mugging me off that easily

3:33pm Thu 5 Dec 13

AlifromIsrael says...

Looking at the above photo, if you cannot see that yellow van from 30 yards,

you need your eyes testing.
The licence requirement is to read a number plate, so should you surrender your licence?
Looking at the above photo, if you cannot see that yellow van from 30 yards, you need your eyes testing. The licence requirement is to read a number plate, so should you surrender your licence? AlifromIsrael

4:04pm Thu 5 Dec 13

DaveBurnley says...

AlifromIsrael wrote:
Looking at the above photo, if you cannot see that yellow van from 30 yards,

you need your eyes testing.
The licence requirement is to read a number plate, so should you surrender your licence?
Those cameras can pick you up several hundred yards away. That's when you get caught, not 30 yards away.
[quote][p][bold]AlifromIsrael[/bold] wrote: Looking at the above photo, if you cannot see that yellow van from 30 yards, you need your eyes testing. The licence requirement is to read a number plate, so should you surrender your licence?[/p][/quote]Those cameras can pick you up several hundred yards away. That's when you get caught, not 30 yards away. DaveBurnley

4:52pm Thu 5 Dec 13

darwenTower says...

No surprise reading the holier than thou comments above from those who just love to conform.
Oh, and if you want to highlight your propensity to conform just end a comment with "simples", I reckon it's just about the best way to demonstrate that you struggle to think for yourself.

A 'speeding' motorist caught every minute?

I presume there was a pile up every minute then? Or were all these drivers managing to travel at that speed safely? If so then it would suggest that their speed was about right for the road and conditions.

I personally wish that the Police would focus their efforts on the terrible drivers who actually cause the accidents rather than the masses who are doing a handful of MPH over the limit.
But there's only a handful of those so there's no money in it. So nothing will really change.

As you were...
No surprise reading the holier than thou comments above from those who just love to conform. Oh, and if you want to highlight your propensity to conform just end a comment with "simples", I reckon it's just about the best way to demonstrate that you struggle to think for yourself. A 'speeding' motorist caught every minute? I presume there was a pile up every minute then? Or were all these drivers managing to travel at that speed safely? If so then it would suggest that their speed was about right for the road and conditions. I personally wish that the Police would focus their efforts on the terrible drivers who actually cause the accidents rather than the masses who are doing a handful of MPH over the limit. But there's only a handful of those so there's no money in it. So nothing will really change. As you were... darwenTower

5:44pm Thu 5 Dec 13

TheReality says...

Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!!

However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place!

Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?.

All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it!

Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult!
Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!! However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place! Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?. All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it! Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult! TheReality

6:46pm Thu 5 Dec 13

HarryBosch says...

Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here.
I think that LT should investigate immediately.
Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here. I think that LT should investigate immediately. HarryBosch

6:51pm Thu 5 Dec 13

TheReality says...

HarryBosch wrote:
Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here.
I think that LT should investigate immediately.
Maybe you just write things that people don't agree with?
[quote][p][bold]HarryBosch[/bold] wrote: Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here. I think that LT should investigate immediately.[/p][/quote]Maybe you just write things that people don't agree with? TheReality

7:03pm Thu 5 Dec 13

TheReality says...

happycyclist wrote:
To all the morons who are down-voting all the sensible comments: I hope your loved ones are victims of speeding motorists who don't give a **** for other people's lives, I really do. See how you think then.
That's a truly sick thing to say! You actually wish harm on people that haven't even been involved in this debate.

Whats wrong with you??

Mind you looking at your other posts you clearly are not a full quid!
[quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: To all the morons who are down-voting all the sensible comments: I hope your loved ones are victims of speeding motorists who don't give a **** for other people's lives, I really do. See how you think then.[/p][/quote]That's a truly sick thing to say! You actually wish harm on people that haven't even been involved in this debate. Whats wrong with you?? Mind you looking at your other posts you clearly are not a full quid! TheReality

7:18pm Thu 5 Dec 13

HarryBosch says...

TheReality wrote:
HarryBosch wrote:
Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here.
I think that LT should investigate immediately.
Maybe you just write things that people don't agree with?
And maybe someone has found a way of corrupting the system! I'm not just looking at thumbs up/down but the times of the comments and the number of votes since posting a comment tell a story.
Anyone who comments on a regular basis will know that there is obviously something wrong here. These type of comments don't generate as many votes in a day that have been generated in an hour!!
[quote][p][bold]TheReality[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HarryBosch[/bold] wrote: Something going on with the thumbs up/down voting system on here. I think that LT should investigate immediately.[/p][/quote]Maybe you just write things that people don't agree with?[/p][/quote]And maybe someone has found a way of corrupting the system! I'm not just looking at thumbs up/down but the times of the comments and the number of votes since posting a comment tell a story. Anyone who comments on a regular basis will know that there is obviously something wrong here. These type of comments don't generate as many votes in a day that have been generated in an hour!! HarryBosch

7:19pm Thu 5 Dec 13

darwenTower says...

happycyclist wrote:
To all the morons who are down-voting all the sensible comments: I hope your loved ones are victims of speeding motorists who don't give a **** for other people's lives, I really do. See how you think then.
I hear you, but we aren't talking about lunatics, we are talking about 47mph on a dual carriageway bypass.
[quote][p][bold]happycyclist[/bold] wrote: To all the morons who are down-voting all the sensible comments: I hope your loved ones are victims of speeding motorists who don't give a **** for other people's lives, I really do. See how you think then.[/p][/quote]I hear you, but we aren't talking about lunatics, we are talking about 47mph on a dual carriageway bypass. darwenTower

7:20pm Thu 5 Dec 13

HarryBosch says...

And maybe someone has found a way of corrupting the system! I'm not just looking at thumbs up/down but the times of the comments and the number of votes since posting a comment tell a story.
Anyone who comments on a regular basis will know that there is obviously something wrong here. These type of comments don't generate as many votes in a day that have been generated in an hour!!
And maybe someone has found a way of corrupting the system! I'm not just looking at thumbs up/down but the times of the comments and the number of votes since posting a comment tell a story. Anyone who comments on a regular basis will know that there is obviously something wrong here. These type of comments don't generate as many votes in a day that have been generated in an hour!! HarryBosch

7:51pm Thu 5 Dec 13

bigted says...

Its a police van, with a police officer inside? really, what rubbish! In the old days when i used to buy a copy of the paper there was occasionally the odd article in there that was technically inaccurate. Nowadays it seems to be almost every single one that they get wrong. I dont know what changed, maybe there isn't an editor anymore and the reporters can just print any old twaddle? Surely there should be a minimum level of fact required for what LET publishes to be labelled as news?
Its a police van, with a police officer inside? really, what rubbish! In the old days when i used to buy a copy of the paper there was occasionally the odd article in there that was technically inaccurate. Nowadays it seems to be almost every single one that they get wrong. I dont know what changed, maybe there isn't an editor anymore and the reporters can just print any old twaddle? Surely there should be a minimum level of fact required for what LET publishes to be labelled as news? bigted

10:06pm Thu 5 Dec 13

fireonthemountain says...

Yes - definitley something wrong with the voting system here .

Some perfectly sensible comments made , which have received an enormous amounts of negative votes .

So - some points for discussion if I may .

1 - as happens on some other sites , if you vote a post down you have to give a reason - which is published .

2 - almost the same , would anyone who voted said posts down , be so kind as to explain why ? On this thread please .

3 - what are LT's criteria ?

One last bit - a personal message to "happycyclist" - don't know if you remember when one of my kiddywinks and three of his mates , cycled form Leeds to Darwen . They are going to do it again Christmas Eve .
We are really looking forward to this - nothing beats a houseful !!
But I really don't want them to come by bike . I'll go and get them , hire a minibus if necessary , pay their train fares , whatever .

Any suggestions ? Or am I still trying to wrap my son in cotton wool ?
He is 29 !!!!!
Yes - definitley something wrong with the voting system here . Some perfectly sensible comments made , which have received an enormous amounts of negative votes . So - some points for discussion if I may . 1 - as happens on some other sites , if you vote a post down you have to give a reason - which is published . 2 - almost the same , would anyone who voted said posts down , be so kind as to explain why ? On this thread please . 3 - what are LT's criteria ? One last bit - a personal message to "happycyclist" - don't know if you remember when one of my kiddywinks and three of his mates , cycled form Leeds to Darwen . They are going to do it again Christmas Eve . We are really looking forward to this - nothing beats a houseful !! But I really don't want them to come by bike . I'll go and get them , hire a minibus if necessary , pay their train fares , whatever . Any suggestions ? Or am I still trying to wrap my son in cotton wool ? He is 29 !!!!! fireonthemountain

7:35am Fri 6 Dec 13

JustOrdinary says...

TheReality wrote:
Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!!

However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place!

Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?.

All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it!

Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult!
I blame the police for putting so much emphasis on speed and then profiting from setting speed limits below a sensible level. Headline "Rawtenstall bypass camera snaps 147 speeders". Question to police and council, "Are you proud of taking money from otherwise law abiding local people on there way home from a hard days work"? The silent majority who just need to use the roads to get to work would prefer safely constructed roundabouts not death-traps like the one constructed for the retail park. Would anyone with any concern for motorist's safety construct, let alone approve a roundabout like that...its a disgrace and a danger to anyone not familiar with it.
TheReality is absolutely correct, as is DarwenTower. The real danger on this road is motorists staying in the outside lane until the last second and cutting across the inside lane to exit for Helmshore.
Spend a bit of money on some white paint to make it clear when motorists must take the left lane if they wish to exit for Helmshore. It they remain in the outside lane, they must continue to Rawtenstall. They will soon learn.
Oh and did I say rebuild the roundabout for the retail park and then we can return to a sensible speed limit for that stretch of road. I liken the 40 limit for the roundabout to driving slow because your brakes don't work properly. Fix the real problems and don't lose support by penalising the ordinary majority. I contest that the safest drivers are not the ones constantly looking at their speedo. Safe driving is all about reading the road whilst allowing for other road users and weather conditions. Staring at your speedo and knowing you are within a speed limit does not in itself make you a safe driver.
[quote][p][bold]TheReality[/bold] wrote: Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!! However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place! Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?. All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it! Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult![/p][/quote]I blame the police for putting so much emphasis on speed and then profiting from setting speed limits below a sensible level. Headline "Rawtenstall bypass camera snaps 147 speeders". Question to police and council, "Are you proud of taking money from otherwise law abiding local people on there way home from a hard days work"? The silent majority who just need to use the roads to get to work would prefer safely constructed roundabouts not death-traps like the one constructed for the retail park. Would anyone with any concern for motorist's safety construct, let alone approve a roundabout like that...its a disgrace and a danger to anyone not familiar with it. TheReality is absolutely correct, as is DarwenTower. The real danger on this road is motorists staying in the outside lane until the last second and cutting across the inside lane to exit for Helmshore. Spend a bit of money on some white paint to make it clear when motorists must take the left lane if they wish to exit for Helmshore. It they remain in the outside lane, they must continue to Rawtenstall. They will soon learn. Oh and did I say rebuild the roundabout for the retail park and then we can return to a sensible speed limit for that stretch of road. I liken the 40 limit for the roundabout to driving slow because your brakes don't work properly. Fix the real problems and don't lose support by penalising the ordinary majority. I contest that the safest drivers are not the ones constantly looking at their speedo. Safe driving is all about reading the road whilst allowing for other road users and weather conditions. Staring at your speedo and knowing you are within a speed limit does not in itself make you a safe driver. JustOrdinary

8:14am Fri 6 Dec 13

TheReality says...

JustOrdinary wrote:
TheReality wrote:
Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!!

However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place!

Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?.

All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it!

Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult!
I blame the police for putting so much emphasis on speed and then profiting from setting speed limits below a sensible level. Headline "Rawtenstall bypass camera snaps 147 speeders". Question to police and council, "Are you proud of taking money from otherwise law abiding local people on there way home from a hard days work"? The silent majority who just need to use the roads to get to work would prefer safely constructed roundabouts not death-traps like the one constructed for the retail park. Would anyone with any concern for motorist's safety construct, let alone approve a roundabout like that...its a disgrace and a danger to anyone not familiar with it.
TheReality is absolutely correct, as is DarwenTower. The real danger on this road is motorists staying in the outside lane until the last second and cutting across the inside lane to exit for Helmshore.
Spend a bit of money on some white paint to make it clear when motorists must take the left lane if they wish to exit for Helmshore. It they remain in the outside lane, they must continue to Rawtenstall. They will soon learn.
Oh and did I say rebuild the roundabout for the retail park and then we can return to a sensible speed limit for that stretch of road. I liken the 40 limit for the roundabout to driving slow because your brakes don't work properly. Fix the real problems and don't lose support by penalising the ordinary majority. I contest that the safest drivers are not the ones constantly looking at their speedo. Safe driving is all about reading the road whilst allowing for other road users and weather conditions. Staring at your speedo and knowing you are within a speed limit does not in itself make you a safe driver.
EXCELLENT POINT WELL MADE!
[quote][p][bold]JustOrdinary[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TheReality[/bold] wrote: Well Said DawenTower. That stretch of road never has an accident, but the junction prior to it has had many!!!!!!!!! However the accidents at the junction before it, are not caused by speed, they are by idiots trying to go from the outside lane to the off ramp at the last possible moment to avoid any queues - ironically they very same people who actually create the queues in the first place! Cameras don't bother with that though as there is no money there! The only accidents further down the road seem to happen from a bad roundabout design, implemented for a now derelict retail park - did someone say back hander?. All in all its typical council / police / private company scum ripping off the motorist, enforcing a speed limit in an area with no need of it! Seems to me this is just like Broadway, Haslingden where they spent fortunes imposing a 20mph limit on a road that barely sees 15mph at school times anyway, and to add insult to injury they have successfully taught kids - through the use of a ridiculous crossing point - that they don't have to look,, they can simply step out in to the road!!!! Which they do, all the time whist their stupid parents are all around parking on zigzags, stopping in the road to let them out, and performing unbelievable maneuvers. No cameras there though to catch them idiots! Reason is its too difficult![/p][/quote]I blame the police for putting so much emphasis on speed and then profiting from setting speed limits below a sensible level. Headline "Rawtenstall bypass camera snaps 147 speeders". Question to police and council, "Are you proud of taking money from otherwise law abiding local people on there way home from a hard days work"? The silent majority who just need to use the roads to get to work would prefer safely constructed roundabouts not death-traps like the one constructed for the retail park. Would anyone with any concern for motorist's safety construct, let alone approve a roundabout like that...its a disgrace and a danger to anyone not familiar with it. TheReality is absolutely correct, as is DarwenTower. The real danger on this road is motorists staying in the outside lane until the last second and cutting across the inside lane to exit for Helmshore. Spend a bit of money on some white paint to make it clear when motorists must take the left lane if they wish to exit for Helmshore. It they remain in the outside lane, they must continue to Rawtenstall. They will soon learn. Oh and did I say rebuild the roundabout for the retail park and then we can return to a sensible speed limit for that stretch of road. I liken the 40 limit for the roundabout to driving slow because your brakes don't work properly. Fix the real problems and don't lose support by penalising the ordinary majority. I contest that the safest drivers are not the ones constantly looking at their speedo. Safe driving is all about reading the road whilst allowing for other road users and weather conditions. Staring at your speedo and knowing you are within a speed limit does not in itself make you a safe driver.[/p][/quote]EXCELLENT POINT WELL MADE! TheReality

4:56pm Tue 24 Dec 13

John05 says...

We are not talking about a road full of boy racers here, we're talking about ordinary people driving at around 50mph on a dual carriageway bypass that was originally built to take traffic quickly and safely around an urban area. A speed camera van does not detect those drivers mentioned here in the comments who are high on drugs. It does not detect drunks, unroadworthy vehicles, people using handheld mobile phones, people putting on their make-up, people tailgating and all the other dangerous behaviour and lack of attention to the job in hand that causes accidents on roads. Let's cut the emotive nonsense about road deaths being caused by speed and nothing else and the profiling of people breaking newly lowered speed limits as all being swivel eyed lunatics doped up and driving hot hatches with bean tin exhausts.
The junction has a high accident rate, so it needs redesigning with better road markings and an improved layout. Booking people for doing 40mph in what used to be a 70mph limit higher up the road is not achieving anything except raking in money and annoying people while pleasing the minority who shout the loudest about how speed kills and hoping my relatives all die in a fireball.
The Department for Transport guidelines state that the speed limit should be the maximum speed 85% of drivers are doing on a road in order to bring the majority of drivers within the law. That's the 85th Percentile Rule. If vast numbers of people were exceeding 40mph on this stretch of road without any accidents, as they clearly were, 40mph is too low.
When I go out on the roads I see lots of people with defective lights. I see lots of people who don't know how to indicate properly at junctions and who have no lane discipline, either when negotiating junctions or driving on the motorway. I encounter people who play silly beggars where lanes merge and won't let the drivers in the next lane merge in turn. I see people passing cyclists too closely, left hooking them and trying to pass them by traffic islands. I see accidents and near misses that would have been avoided by people looking ahead to the vanishing point on the road and planning ahead. The people who commit all these offences are the sort of people who see driving as a means to an end and take no interest in doing it properly and as well as it can and should be done.
These are the kind of people who get hysterical about speed because to them speed is scary. Their lack of awareness, forward planning and observation means everything happens too fast for them and everything comes as a last second surprise. Their unroadworthy cars can't handle speed and people can't see what they're doing because of their defective lights, lack of indication and the fact they're in the wrong lane. Then everyone gets cross with them or they take a horn sounded in warning as a challenge to a fight.
We need to create and maintain a proper road network fit for the traffic using it and the infrastructure around it and persuade motorists to give driving the care and attention it deserves. That's far more important and will do far more for road safety than trying to catch people out with an endless focus solely on speed.
We are not talking about a road full of boy racers here, we're talking about ordinary people driving at around 50mph on a dual carriageway bypass that was originally built to take traffic quickly and safely around an urban area. A speed camera van does not detect those drivers mentioned here in the comments who are high on drugs. It does not detect drunks, unroadworthy vehicles, people using handheld mobile phones, people putting on their make-up, people tailgating and all the other dangerous behaviour and lack of attention to the job in hand that causes accidents on roads. Let's cut the emotive nonsense about road deaths being caused by speed and nothing else and the profiling of people breaking newly lowered speed limits as all being swivel eyed lunatics doped up and driving hot hatches with bean tin exhausts. The junction has a high accident rate, so it needs redesigning with better road markings and an improved layout. Booking people for doing 40mph in what used to be a 70mph limit higher up the road is not achieving anything except raking in money and annoying people while pleasing the minority who shout the loudest about how speed kills and hoping my relatives all die in a fireball. The Department for Transport guidelines state that the speed limit should be the maximum speed 85% of drivers are doing on a road in order to bring the majority of drivers within the law. That's the 85th Percentile Rule. If vast numbers of people were exceeding 40mph on this stretch of road without any accidents, as they clearly were, 40mph is too low. When I go out on the roads I see lots of people with defective lights. I see lots of people who don't know how to indicate properly at junctions and who have no lane discipline, either when negotiating junctions or driving on the motorway. I encounter people who play silly beggars where lanes merge and won't let the drivers in the next lane merge in turn. I see people passing cyclists too closely, left hooking them and trying to pass them by traffic islands. I see accidents and near misses that would have been avoided by people looking ahead to the vanishing point on the road and planning ahead. The people who commit all these offences are the sort of people who see driving as a means to an end and take no interest in doing it properly and as well as it can and should be done. These are the kind of people who get hysterical about speed because to them speed is scary. Their lack of awareness, forward planning and observation means everything happens too fast for them and everything comes as a last second surprise. Their unroadworthy cars can't handle speed and people can't see what they're doing because of their defective lights, lack of indication and the fact they're in the wrong lane. Then everyone gets cross with them or they take a horn sounded in warning as a challenge to a fight. We need to create and maintain a proper road network fit for the traffic using it and the infrastructure around it and persuade motorists to give driving the care and attention it deserves. That's far more important and will do far more for road safety than trying to catch people out with an endless focus solely on speed. John05

5:26pm Tue 24 Dec 13

John05 says...

Excluded again wrote:
I drove along that road during this period.

I did not receive a fine. The speed limits were clearly marked and i stuck to them. Simples.
When the speed limit was dropped to 40mph, the traffic engineers missed removing the NSL sign just before this layby. There are other roads where speed limits have been reduced but NSL signs have missed being taken down.
[quote][p][bold]Excluded again[/bold] wrote: I drove along that road during this period. I did not receive a fine. The speed limits were clearly marked and i stuck to them. Simples.[/p][/quote]When the speed limit was dropped to 40mph, the traffic engineers missed removing the NSL sign just before this layby. There are other roads where speed limits have been reduced but NSL signs have missed being taken down. John05

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