Outrage as yobs burn Blackburn church cross

Blackburn Citizen: DISMAY Church warden George Harrison examines the remains of the cross DISMAY Church warden George Harrison examines the remains of the cross

VANDALS have set fire to a 10-foot cross stolen from a church’s garage.

Community leaders said they were ‘disgusted’ and ‘outraged’ that yobs had burnt the wooden cross on land close to Holy Trinity C of E Church in Blackburn. The cross, which was burnt on a bonfire, has been used for more than 30 years in the Good Friday procession from Little Harwood to Larkhill.

Police said a gang of youths ransacked the outbuilding connected to the church’s worship centre, also stealing a mattress, ladder and other household items.

Officers said they did not believe the incident was racially or religiously motivated.

Rev Ron Mulligan, who leads the congregation at Holy Trinity, said: “It’s just mindless vandalism. This is not the first time it has happened but it seems to be the way society is going nowadays.”

Other attacks on the church recently include broken windows, holes being punched in doors, arson attacks and a scooter driven into the church.

Long serving church warden George Harrison, who has worshipped at Holy Trinity for 70 years, raised the alarm after discovering the church’s garage door broken on Tuesday morning.

He said: “They seem to have done this maliciously, because this time they have smashed the door to smithereens.

“Most of us travel from far and wide to worship at Holy Trinity. We are trying to keep the place in existence and when these types of things happen it’s so disheartening.

“It’s unlikely that we will replace the cross and the Easter march between the various churches in the neighbourhood will probably be disbanded too.

“I don’t even think our insurance will cover the cost of a new door for the garage because we’ve had so many attacks now. We want to get a steel one to better safeguard the worship centre.”

Mr Harrison said a new door would cost £600 but the church was only likely to get £200 from its insurance.

The extra money will have to come from the church’s funds, provided by the congregation.

Glynis Scott, the manager of nearby Bowden Court sheltered housing scheme, said: “Groups of teenagers are always hanging around here.

“We have had a lot of vandalism at the local school and the church.

“I think it is disgusting. You do see police around but never when it’s happening.

“I now worry for some of the older people here who are in their 90’s because they are always doing things close to the home.”

Little Harwood Coun Abdul Patel said: “I am really shocked that someone has broken into church property and stolen items to burn, especially a cross.

“This should not be happening. In my view if anyone takes anything from anywhere without permission that is bad but from a church it is really bad.”

Coun Mike Lee, opposition leader on Blackburn Council, said: “It is a real shame, especially when a church cannot go a few days with incident.

“People no longer seem afraid of the consequences of their actions.

“They are given ASBOs and nothing is done even if they break the ASBO 25 times.

“No one has respect for other people’s property anymore.”

Police have now launched an investigation into the incident.

Insp Abid Khan, of Blackburn police, said: “We are investigating a report of the theft of a number of items from a garage in Larkhill Blackburn, which included a large cross.

“Whilst these inquiries are at an early stage it would be disappointing to find that this was anything other than young children being mischievous and finding wood for a bonfire.

“I would ask anyone who may have been in the area and may have seen anything suspicious to come forward and contact police.”

Anyone with information should call police on 101.

Comments (50)

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12:02pm Fri 9 Nov 12

jennyspain says...

wasnt racially or religiously motivated in little harwood????
wasnt racially or religiously motivated in little harwood???? jennyspain

12:12pm Fri 9 Nov 12

shytalk says...

If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.
If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now. shytalk

12:28pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Scooby says...

Best place for it!
Best place for it! Scooby

12:45pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Major Tom says...

It's just a piece of wood.
Make another.
It's just a piece of wood. Make another. Major Tom

12:50pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Info-warrior says...

It doesn't seem to burn as well as a Koran can..? I guess they would both burn better together but they're that diveded they couldn't even do that without upsetting the rest of us....
It doesn't seem to burn as well as a Koran can..? I guess they would both burn better together but they're that diveded they couldn't even do that without upsetting the rest of us.... Info-warrior

12:52pm Fri 9 Nov 12

nearly sane says...

shytalk wrote:
If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.
Why are the world's peace loving Christians not rioting, killing, burning effigies of David Cameron and setting fire to embassies to avenge this affront to their religion?
[quote][p][bold]shytalk[/bold] wrote: If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.[/p][/quote]Why are the world's peace loving Christians not rioting, killing, burning effigies of David Cameron and setting fire to embassies to avenge this affront to their religion? nearly sane

1:51pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Mike Oxsore says...

Major Tom wrote:
It's just a piece of wood.
Make another.
Are you going to donate your head?
[quote][p][bold]Major Tom[/bold] wrote: It's just a piece of wood. Make another.[/p][/quote]Are you going to donate your head? Mike Oxsore

2:10pm Fri 9 Nov 12

useyourhead says...

it looks like two lengths of 3 by 2, how difficult can that be to replace?
-
still out of order to suffer this but I do think they are over egging a little, talking about dis.banding and such is a little melodramatic.
it looks like two lengths of 3 by 2, how difficult can that be to replace? - still out of order to suffer this but I do think they are over egging a little, talking about dis.banding and such is a little melodramatic. useyourhead

2:25pm Fri 9 Nov 12

611b says...

"Officers said they did not believe the incident was racially or religiously motivated". So from this statement can we assume this was carried out by a gang from the religion of peace?
"Officers said they did not believe the incident was racially or religiously motivated". So from this statement can we assume this was carried out by a gang from the religion of peace? 611b

2:40pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Scooby says...

All religions are peaceful and loving aren't they?

Besides, I'm sure it want religiously motivated, wood just burns well! We had a fridge on the bonfire where I live, sure there's no religions that worship fridges??
All religions are peaceful and loving aren't they? Besides, I'm sure it want religiously motivated, wood just burns well! We had a fridge on the bonfire where I live, sure there's no religions that worship fridges?? Scooby

3:19pm Fri 9 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

It certainly seems narrow minded turds would like to see this act committed by the 'religion of peace', but fail to recollect previous vandalism to churchs was done by no other than the young indigenous population!
It certainly seems narrow minded turds would like to see this act committed by the 'religion of peace', but fail to recollect previous vandalism to churchs was done by no other than the young indigenous population! sen c ble

3:57pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Carl_24 says...

What ever happened to respect???
What ever happened to respect??? Carl_24

4:06pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Ex_Darwen_Tech says...

The wooden cross is only two pieces of wood nailed together. Just like the Koran is a number of pieces of paper printed with words. It isn't the basic material of the item it's what they represent. But, I must agree with other comments here that destruction of Christian images don't evoke the same level of mindless destruction that destrying Muslim images do.
The wooden cross is only two pieces of wood nailed together. Just like the Koran is a number of pieces of paper printed with words. It isn't the basic material of the item it's what they represent. But, I must agree with other comments here that destruction of Christian images don't evoke the same level of mindless destruction that destrying Muslim images do. Ex_Darwen_Tech

4:36pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Rishtonian says...

From the coments on here it just shows the mentality of the public these days
From the coments on here it just shows the mentality of the public these days Rishtonian

5:07pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Libra1 says...

I couldn't agree more with You Rishtonian but that's the standard of the local readers who haven't the intelligence to write anything constructive. Obviously it is the mindless youth who did this with no thought in mind who they will upset with their criminal actions.
Reading the report also suggests that most church goers are from the older generation - another sign of the times. This cross is not merely two pieces of wood but a religious symbol and also 30 years old . The police should do everything to catch the culprits and punish them
I couldn't agree more with You Rishtonian but that's the standard of the local readers who haven't the intelligence to write anything constructive. Obviously it is the mindless youth who did this with no thought in mind who they will upset with their criminal actions. Reading the report also suggests that most church goers are from the older generation - another sign of the times. This cross is not merely two pieces of wood but a religious symbol and also 30 years old . The police should do everything to catch the culprits and punish them Libra1

5:10pm Fri 9 Nov 12

M Foster says...

I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.
I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that. M Foster

5:10pm Fri 9 Nov 12

logie28 says...

How about setting up a donation page, one to help pay for a new door and a new Cross.

How about the "Community leaders" asking their people to dig deep and donate towards putting right what the Community has put wrong.

Work together, bring both communities closer, not destroying holy and sacred property. Install a little education and respect !

At this rate, Blackburn will soon be finished......Pathet
ic.
How about setting up a donation page, one to help pay for a new door and a new Cross. How about the "Community leaders" asking their people to dig deep and donate towards putting right what the Community has put wrong. Work together, bring both communities closer, not destroying holy and sacred property. Install a little education and respect ! At this rate, Blackburn will soon be finished......Pathet ic. logie28

5:18pm Fri 9 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

M Foster wrote:
I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.
Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship!
[quote][p][bold]M Foster[/bold] wrote: I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.[/p][/quote]Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship! sen c ble

6:10pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Legal Beagle says...

Church warden George Harrison says: " ... this time they have smashed the door to smithereens."

Ins Abid Khan says: " ... it would be disappointing to find that this was anything other than young children being mischievous and finding wood for a bonfire. "

I have to say that Insp Abid Khan's definition of `mischievous' is rather different than mine.
Church warden George Harrison says: " ... this time they have smashed the door to smithereens." Ins Abid Khan says: " ... it would be disappointing to find that this was anything other than young children being mischievous and finding wood for a bonfire. " I have to say that Insp Abid Khan's definition of `mischievous' is rather different than mine. Legal Beagle

6:13pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Davelyn says...

Who's betting these arseholes will never be caught.
If this has been carried out by white youths they should be jaied for 5 years
for trying to incriminate Asians. However if Asians did this then we should diport them and there families to Afganistan and let them see what they can do against our troops.
Who's betting these arseholes will never be caught. If this has been carried out by white youths they should be jaied for 5 years for trying to incriminate Asians. However if Asians did this then we should diport them and there families to Afganistan and let them see what they can do against our troops. Davelyn

6:25pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Davelyn says...

If the police know this was done by a gang of youths they also know what ethnic background they come from. To say this crime was not racially or religiously motivated then it must have been a gang of white youths.
WE SHALL SEE.
Anyone want to bet they never catch them.
If the police know this was done by a gang of youths they also know what ethnic background they come from. To say this crime was not racially or religiously motivated then it must have been a gang of white youths. WE SHALL SEE. Anyone want to bet they never catch them. Davelyn

7:14pm Fri 9 Nov 12

eco/pendle says...

reading through these comments i am disgusted that these idiots who write this immature rubbish can actualy put words together.your very childish pathetic and the lowest of the low no wonder lancashire is seen by others as the pits your probably sat there dossing and to idle to work nothing else to do and spitting your dummies out, if you have not got the brain cells to or respect dont join in.hope the police who are continualy chasing scum catch them and make them pay for the damage and then sent down. disgusted that i am blackburn born and bred
reading through these comments i am disgusted that these idiots who write this immature rubbish can actualy put words together.your very childish pathetic and the lowest of the low no wonder lancashire is seen by others as the pits your probably sat there dossing and to idle to work nothing else to do and spitting your dummies out, if you have not got the brain cells to or respect dont join in.hope the police who are continualy chasing scum catch them and make them pay for the damage and then sent down. disgusted that i am blackburn born and bred eco/pendle

7:18pm Fri 9 Nov 12

McAbsent says...

Can you morons not read?

It states it's not 'believed' to be racially or religiously motivated. It's not the outcome but based-suspicions.

It's for a bonfire, hardly going to be Muslims trying to abuse the Christian faith.
Can you morons not read? It states it's not 'believed' to be racially or religiously motivated. It's not the outcome but based-suspicions. It's for a bonfire, hardly going to be Muslims trying to abuse the Christian faith. McAbsent

7:23pm Fri 9 Nov 12

McAbsent says...

Davelyn wrote:
Who's betting these arseholes will never be caught. If this has been carried out by white youths they should be jaied for 5 years for trying to incriminate Asians. However if Asians did this then we should diport them and there families to Afganistan and let them see what they can do against our troops.
So, white youths would only do this to incriminate Asians? :/
[quote][p][bold]Davelyn[/bold] wrote: Who's betting these arseholes will never be caught. If this has been carried out by white youths they should be jaied for 5 years for trying to incriminate Asians. However if Asians did this then we should diport them and there families to Afganistan and let them see what they can do against our troops.[/p][/quote]So, white youths would only do this to incriminate Asians? :/ McAbsent

7:44pm Fri 9 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

nearly sane wrote:
shytalk wrote:
If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.
Why are the world's peace loving Christians not rioting, killing, burning effigies of David Cameron and setting fire to embassies to avenge this affront to their religion?
...because it's not in their hearts!
Ha Ha Ha.
[quote][p][bold]nearly sane[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]shytalk[/bold] wrote: If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.[/p][/quote]Why are the world's peace loving Christians not rioting, killing, burning effigies of David Cameron and setting fire to embassies to avenge this affront to their religion?[/p][/quote]...because it's not in their hearts! Ha Ha Ha. sen c ble

8:20pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Excluded again says...

The picture shows the burnt cross on top of a load of other burnt wood. Looks a bit like a bonfire to me. Unless the kids involved are really up on the Catholic-Protestant struggles in early seventeenth century England, this is does not seem religiously motivated.
The picture shows the burnt cross on top of a load of other burnt wood. Looks a bit like a bonfire to me. Unless the kids involved are really up on the Catholic-Protestant struggles in early seventeenth century England, this is does not seem religiously motivated. Excluded again

8:33pm Fri 9 Nov 12

M Foster says...

sen c ble wrote:
M Foster wrote:
I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.
Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship!
Yet Muslims only acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and not the Son of God, which is of course what Christians believe. Therefore your statement about Muslims holding Jesus more dearly than Christians is patently absurd, as you cannot seriously be suggesting that Christians – whose faith is primarily tied to Jesus being the son of God - regards Jesus in a lesser light than Muslims.

You seem to be confusing the issue of Christianity and their regard for Jesus, with that of the rise of atheism and agnostic/lack of religiosity in this country - which is partially why the churches are emptying. The other reason perhaps being a cultural assault on the established religion and identity of this country - and how Christianity, in the eyes of some of its traditional adherents, has often been hijacked to fulfill a different agenda to traditional Christian beliefs in this country.

Seeing as you are an expert on religion, you should already know that the remaining Christians who do uphold their faith are not required to go to a place of worship in order to practice that faith. They can pray privately - and are not compelled to perform daily rituals in the ways that Muslims are. Going to pray in a building does NOT make a person a true Christian or a lesser one for not doing so. It is taught that it is not WHERE you pray, but HOW you pray and WHO you pray to that matters. Like it or not, Christianity and Islam are today the most numerous and fastest growing religions globally. Together they encompass more than half of humanity and therefore need to develop MUTUAL respect.

But this religious quibble is nothing to do with the desecration of a place of worship, however it is a sad fact that Muslims around the world have previously burnt churches down to the ground and/or converted them into mosques as a sign of their conquest or dominance over another's country and traditional cultures.

The capacity or frequency of the church use has no bearing on the crime. I have seen enough troubles with Muslims around the world to be suspicious of who the perpetrators might have been – even if they were just youths and, although I may be wrong, it does fit the usual Modus Operandi.
Instead of addressing the serious issues I raised concerning the actions of people sharing the same faith as you may do, you just attempt to distract from them.
[quote][p][bold]sen c ble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]M Foster[/bold] wrote: I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.[/p][/quote]Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship![/p][/quote]Yet Muslims only acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and not the Son of God, which is of course what Christians believe. Therefore your statement about Muslims holding Jesus more dearly than Christians is patently absurd, as you cannot seriously be suggesting that Christians – whose faith is primarily tied to Jesus being the son of God - regards Jesus in a lesser light than Muslims. You seem to be confusing the issue of Christianity and their regard for Jesus, with that of the rise of atheism and agnostic/lack of religiosity in this country - which is partially why the churches are emptying. The other reason perhaps being a cultural assault on the established religion and identity of this country - and how Christianity, in the eyes of some of its traditional adherents, has often been hijacked to fulfill a different agenda to traditional Christian beliefs in this country. Seeing as you are an expert on religion, you should already know that the remaining Christians who do uphold their faith are not required to go to a place of worship in order to practice that faith. They can pray privately - and are not compelled to perform daily rituals in the ways that Muslims are. Going to pray in a building does NOT make a person a true Christian or a lesser one for not doing so. It is taught that it is not WHERE you pray, but HOW you pray and WHO you pray to that matters. Like it or not, Christianity and Islam are today the most numerous and fastest growing religions globally. Together they encompass more than half of humanity and therefore need to develop MUTUAL respect. But this religious quibble is nothing to do with the desecration of a place of worship, however it is a sad fact that Muslims around the world have previously burnt churches down to the ground and/or converted them into mosques as a sign of their conquest or dominance over another's country and traditional cultures. The capacity or frequency of the church use has no bearing on the crime. I have seen enough troubles with Muslims around the world to be suspicious of who the perpetrators might have been – even if they were just youths and, although I may be wrong, it does fit the usual Modus Operandi. Instead of addressing the serious issues I raised concerning the actions of people sharing the same faith as you may do, you just attempt to distract from them. M Foster

8:46pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Ex_Darwen_Tech says...

Nice post, sen c ble.
Reminds me of an old saying, "Going to Church on a sunday doesn't make one a Christian. (Apply the same to Mosque.) Neither does standing in my garage make me a motor car!"
Nice post, sen c ble. Reminds me of an old saying, "Going to Church on a sunday doesn't make one a Christian. (Apply the same to Mosque.) Neither does standing in my garage make me a motor car!" Ex_Darwen_Tech

9:15pm Fri 9 Nov 12

Mike Oxsore says...

M Foster wrote:
sen c ble wrote:
M Foster wrote:
I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.
Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship!
Yet Muslims only acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and not the Son of God, which is of course what Christians believe. Therefore your statement about Muslims holding Jesus more dearly than Christians is patently absurd, as you cannot seriously be suggesting that Christians – whose faith is primarily tied to Jesus being the son of God - regards Jesus in a lesser light than Muslims.

You seem to be confusing the issue of Christianity and their regard for Jesus, with that of the rise of atheism and agnostic/lack of religiosity in this country - which is partially why the churches are emptying. The other reason perhaps being a cultural assault on the established religion and identity of this country - and how Christianity, in the eyes of some of its traditional adherents, has often been hijacked to fulfill a different agenda to traditional Christian beliefs in this country.

Seeing as you are an expert on religion, you should already know that the remaining Christians who do uphold their faith are not required to go to a place of worship in order to practice that faith. They can pray privately - and are not compelled to perform daily rituals in the ways that Muslims are. Going to pray in a building does NOT make a person a true Christian or a lesser one for not doing so. It is taught that it is not WHERE you pray, but HOW you pray and WHO you pray to that matters. Like it or not, Christianity and Islam are today the most numerous and fastest growing religions globally. Together they encompass more than half of humanity and therefore need to develop MUTUAL respect.

But this religious quibble is nothing to do with the desecration of a place of worship, however it is a sad fact that Muslims around the world have previously burnt churches down to the ground and/or converted them into mosques as a sign of their conquest or dominance over another's country and traditional cultures.

The capacity or frequency of the church use has no bearing on the crime. I have seen enough troubles with Muslims around the world to be suspicious of who the perpetrators might have been – even if they were just youths and, although I may be wrong, it does fit the usual Modus Operandi.
Instead of addressing the serious issues I raised concerning the actions of people sharing the same faith as you may do, you just attempt to distract from them.
Well said sir.
[quote][p][bold]M Foster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sen c ble[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]M Foster[/bold] wrote: I wonder if it is anything to do with the world-wide epidemic of burning down churches along with the killing and persecution of Christians, all in the name of another so-called `religion of peace'? Is it a coincidence, or is it a case of - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it IS a duck? If the damaging of bound pieces of paper with words written in ink on them justifies rioting and killing by some religious fanatics, this disrespectful action also justifies a similar response by those to whom this symbol is not just `two pieces of wood nailed together. Of course, we know Christians are not vengeful people so would not do that.[/p][/quote]Actaully Jesus is more dear to musleems than Christians themselves who have long forgotten regular attendance of thier beloved place of worship![/p][/quote]Yet Muslims only acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and not the Son of God, which is of course what Christians believe. Therefore your statement about Muslims holding Jesus more dearly than Christians is patently absurd, as you cannot seriously be suggesting that Christians – whose faith is primarily tied to Jesus being the son of God - regards Jesus in a lesser light than Muslims. You seem to be confusing the issue of Christianity and their regard for Jesus, with that of the rise of atheism and agnostic/lack of religiosity in this country - which is partially why the churches are emptying. The other reason perhaps being a cultural assault on the established religion and identity of this country - and how Christianity, in the eyes of some of its traditional adherents, has often been hijacked to fulfill a different agenda to traditional Christian beliefs in this country. Seeing as you are an expert on religion, you should already know that the remaining Christians who do uphold their faith are not required to go to a place of worship in order to practice that faith. They can pray privately - and are not compelled to perform daily rituals in the ways that Muslims are. Going to pray in a building does NOT make a person a true Christian or a lesser one for not doing so. It is taught that it is not WHERE you pray, but HOW you pray and WHO you pray to that matters. Like it or not, Christianity and Islam are today the most numerous and fastest growing religions globally. Together they encompass more than half of humanity and therefore need to develop MUTUAL respect. But this religious quibble is nothing to do with the desecration of a place of worship, however it is a sad fact that Muslims around the world have previously burnt churches down to the ground and/or converted them into mosques as a sign of their conquest or dominance over another's country and traditional cultures. The capacity or frequency of the church use has no bearing on the crime. I have seen enough troubles with Muslims around the world to be suspicious of who the perpetrators might have been – even if they were just youths and, although I may be wrong, it does fit the usual Modus Operandi. Instead of addressing the serious issues I raised concerning the actions of people sharing the same faith as you may do, you just attempt to distract from them.[/p][/quote]Well said sir. Mike Oxsore

9:20pm Fri 9 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

Surely the Lord is in this place-and I did not know it!... How awesome is this place! This is none other than the House of God, and this is the gate of heaven (Genesis28:16-17)
Rather than what you do all week at home, in order to worship is what you do when all come together Sunday mornings at 8 in a sacred place, sacred time, focused on worship without minds being worldy diverted.
Regardless how one would view Jesus, for musleems to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet as well as their own is evident the love and respect they have for Jesus even though they will dispute no human can be God's children, and if so the greatness of God would be questioned. If we are all God's creation , then we are all God's children and Moses, Noaah and Adam before us!
The reality that Musleems have continued to adhere to the rules and examples of the Koran and not simply to suit oneself, which many Chritsians have done in every aspect hence why distancing from the bible and the church, and the continuation will cause embarrassment which eventually will lead to being driven astray.
Surely the Lord is in this place-and I did not know it!... How awesome is this place! This is none other than the House of God, and this is the gate of heaven (Genesis28:16-17) Rather than what you do all week at home, in order to worship is what you do when all come together Sunday mornings at 8 in a sacred place, sacred time, focused on worship without minds being worldy diverted. Regardless how one would view Jesus, for musleems to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet as well as their own is evident the love and respect they have for Jesus even though they will dispute no human can be God's children, and if so the greatness of God would be questioned. If we are all God's creation , then we are all God's children and Moses, Noaah and Adam before us! The reality that Musleems have continued to adhere to the rules and examples of the Koran and not simply to suit oneself, which many Chritsians have done in every aspect hence why distancing from the bible and the church, and the continuation will cause embarrassment which eventually will lead to being driven astray. sen c ble

9:27pm Fri 9 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

Ex_Darwen_Tech wrote:
Nice post, sen c ble.
Reminds me of an old saying, "Going to Church on a sunday doesn't make one a Christian. (Apply the same to Mosque.) Neither does standing in my garage make me a motor car!"
Hence why Churches are derelict, and why would you choose to stand in your garage and what would you refer to, a lifeless car manual!
[quote][p][bold]Ex_Darwen_Tech[/bold] wrote: Nice post, sen c ble. Reminds me of an old saying, "Going to Church on a sunday doesn't make one a Christian. (Apply the same to Mosque.) Neither does standing in my garage make me a motor car!"[/p][/quote]Hence why Churches are derelict, and why would you choose to stand in your garage and what would you refer to, a lifeless car manual! sen c ble

10:16pm Fri 9 Nov 12

woolywords says...

me being me, I'd love to get on this racist, bigoted and typical bandwagon but..
someone here complained that my comments were a bit too close to home... therefore bigot,racist, derogatory and offensive.

If I were the Church Warden, I'd pick up the bits, nail them together, get a few parishoners behind you, for a singsong..
A bearded man, in a shift, dragging an old wooden cross, through this town might evoke or elicit some spare coins..
I'd do it, as long as Sen C. Ble carries my bucket, to prove there is no discord between me and him, me and my religeons, our own faiths and them, the terrorists.
To show that, no matter what they do in the name of religeons, we love peace, me and him.
I'd walk that mile, barefoot.

It's not a mile between the Cathedral and Larkhill, work out my route...include some muslim areas..
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone..' John 8. 7

I will stand the stones and spitting, without a Police presence, just to show that it can be done..

You phone Sgt. John Rigby, he's got a medal for solving racial issuses, I have the gonads to show that it can be done..
Am going to give him my number,are you?
A Muslim, carrying a collecting box, on behalf of a Christian, is a great leap of faiths.....
Dare to be different..
in the name of peace.
me being me, I'd love to get on this racist, bigoted and typical bandwagon but.. someone here complained that my comments were a bit too close to home... therefore bigot,racist, derogatory and offensive. If I were the Church Warden, I'd pick up the bits, nail them together, get a few parishoners behind you, for a singsong.. A bearded man, in a shift, dragging an old wooden cross, through this town might evoke or elicit some spare coins.. I'd do it, as long as Sen C. Ble carries my bucket, to prove there is no discord between me and him, me and my religeons, our own faiths and them, the terrorists. To show that, no matter what they do in the name of religeons, we love peace, me and him. I'd walk that mile, barefoot. It's not a mile between the Cathedral and Larkhill, work out my route...include some muslim areas.. Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone..' John 8. 7 I will stand the stones and spitting, without a Police presence, just to show that it can be done.. You phone Sgt. John Rigby, he's got a medal for solving racial issuses, I have the gonads to show that it can be done.. Am going to give him my number,are you? A Muslim, carrying a collecting box, on behalf of a Christian, is a great leap of faiths..... Dare to be different.. in the name of peace. woolywords

11:44pm Fri 9 Nov 12

abdullah says...

Has the Kkk made an appearance in Blackburn,they sure love burning those crosses.
Has the Kkk made an appearance in Blackburn,they sure love burning those crosses. abdullah

12:08am Sat 10 Nov 12

hairy mary says...

im no sherlock holmes, but i guess its near bonfire night and they wanted some wood,as for respect they have none, thats down to bad parenting
im no sherlock holmes, but i guess its near bonfire night and they wanted some wood,as for respect they have none, thats down to bad parenting hairy mary

2:43am Sat 10 Nov 12

Mercedez says...

as a muslim i am disgraced , at what people do to religious items , my sympathys with the christian community
as a muslim i am disgraced , at what people do to religious items , my sympathys with the christian community Mercedez

4:26am Sat 10 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

woolywords wrote:
me being me, I'd love to get on this racist, bigoted and typical bandwagon but..
someone here complained that my comments were a bit too close to home... therefore bigot,racist, derogatory and offensive.

If I were the Church Warden, I'd pick up the bits, nail them together, get a few parishoners behind you, for a singsong..
A bearded man, in a shift, dragging an old wooden cross, through this town might evoke or elicit some spare coins..
I'd do it, as long as Sen C. Ble carries my bucket, to prove there is no discord between me and him, me and my religeons, our own faiths and them, the terrorists.
To show that, no matter what they do in the name of religeons, we love peace, me and him.
I'd walk that mile, barefoot.

It's not a mile between the Cathedral and Larkhill, work out my route...include some muslim areas..
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone..' John 8. 7

I will stand the stones and spitting, without a Police presence, just to show that it can be done..

You phone Sgt. John Rigby, he's got a medal for solving racial issuses, I have the gonads to show that it can be done..
Am going to give him my number,are you?
A Muslim, carrying a collecting box, on behalf of a Christian, is a great leap of faiths.....
Dare to be different..
in the name of peace.
You're on my Bro, but one heck of an impossible challenge to nobble the young generation into following on, and until the next Nov5!
[quote][p][bold]woolywords[/bold] wrote: me being me, I'd love to get on this racist, bigoted and typical bandwagon but.. someone here complained that my comments were a bit too close to home... therefore bigot,racist, derogatory and offensive. If I were the Church Warden, I'd pick up the bits, nail them together, get a few parishoners behind you, for a singsong.. A bearded man, in a shift, dragging an old wooden cross, through this town might evoke or elicit some spare coins.. I'd do it, as long as Sen C. Ble carries my bucket, to prove there is no discord between me and him, me and my religeons, our own faiths and them, the terrorists. To show that, no matter what they do in the name of religeons, we love peace, me and him. I'd walk that mile, barefoot. It's not a mile between the Cathedral and Larkhill, work out my route...include some muslim areas.. Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone..' John 8. 7 I will stand the stones and spitting, without a Police presence, just to show that it can be done.. You phone Sgt. John Rigby, he's got a medal for solving racial issuses, I have the gonads to show that it can be done.. Am going to give him my number,are you? A Muslim, carrying a collecting box, on behalf of a Christian, is a great leap of faiths..... Dare to be different.. in the name of peace.[/p][/quote]You're on my Bro, but one heck of an impossible challenge to nobble the young generation into following on, and until the next Nov5! sen c ble

8:51am Sat 10 Nov 12

jack daniels says...

sen c ble wrote:
Surely the Lord is in this place-and I did not know it!... How awesome is this place! This is none other than the House of God, and this is the gate of heaven (Genesis28:16-17)
Rather than what you do all week at home, in order to worship is what you do when all come together Sunday mornings at 8 in a sacred place, sacred time, focused on worship without minds being worldy diverted.
Regardless how one would view Jesus, for musleems to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet as well as their own is evident the love and respect they have for Jesus even though they will dispute no human can be God's children, and if so the greatness of God would be questioned. If we are all God's creation , then we are all God's children and Moses, Noaah and Adam before us!
The reality that Musleems have continued to adhere to the rules and examples of the Koran and not simply to suit oneself, which many Chritsians have done in every aspect hence why distancing from the bible and the church, and the continuation will cause embarrassment which eventually will lead to being driven astray.
Actually they haven't stuck to the rules and examples of the Koran. No sooner had the prophet Mohammed popped his clogs then the Muslim spiritual leaders started interpreting their own versions. We now have Muslims killing Muslims on a daily basis all because they can't agree. Islam is as flawed as every other faith that insists on having a spiritual leader that decides on what their fairy tale means.
[quote][p][bold]sen c ble[/bold] wrote: Surely the Lord is in this place-and I did not know it!... How awesome is this place! This is none other than the House of God, and this is the gate of heaven (Genesis28:16-17) Rather than what you do all week at home, in order to worship is what you do when all come together Sunday mornings at 8 in a sacred place, sacred time, focused on worship without minds being worldy diverted. Regardless how one would view Jesus, for musleems to acknowledge Jesus as a prophet as well as their own is evident the love and respect they have for Jesus even though they will dispute no human can be God's children, and if so the greatness of God would be questioned. If we are all God's creation , then we are all God's children and Moses, Noaah and Adam before us! The reality that Musleems have continued to adhere to the rules and examples of the Koran and not simply to suit oneself, which many Chritsians have done in every aspect hence why distancing from the bible and the church, and the continuation will cause embarrassment which eventually will lead to being driven astray.[/p][/quote]Actually they haven't stuck to the rules and examples of the Koran. No sooner had the prophet Mohammed popped his clogs then the Muslim spiritual leaders started interpreting their own versions. We now have Muslims killing Muslims on a daily basis all because they can't agree. Islam is as flawed as every other faith that insists on having a spiritual leader that decides on what their fairy tale means. jack daniels

8:52am Sat 10 Nov 12

AnthonyUK says...

The problem with the uk is that we always protect asians and pakistanis with racerelations laws but when the boot is on the other foot they can say and do whatever they like to british people and they can get away with it as we're not so protected! This is a reason for resentment against non British muslim people here.
The problem with the uk is that we always protect asians and pakistanis with racerelations laws but when the boot is on the other foot they can say and do whatever they like to british people and they can get away with it as we're not so protected! This is a reason for resentment against non British muslim people here. AnthonyUK

10:53am Sat 10 Nov 12

Bill Carson says...

God works in mysterious ways...
God works in mysterious ways... Bill Carson

10:54am Sat 10 Nov 12

Bill Carson says...

...but what would Jesus do?
...but what would Jesus do? Bill Carson

11:51am Sat 10 Nov 12

jack daniels says...

Bill Carson wrote:
...but what would Jesus do?
Shake his head in disbelief and open a box of wine
[quote][p][bold]Bill Carson[/bold] wrote: ...but what would Jesus do?[/p][/quote]Shake his head in disbelief and open a box of wine jack daniels

12:36pm Sat 10 Nov 12

norah bhatty says...

It's all about respect - or rather lack of. Everyday we read about acts of vandalism, and it doesn't get any better.
To steal a cross is the work of nasty individual(s) - if someone stole or damaged any of THEIR property, the outcry would ring loud and clear.
There are a lot of decent people who work hard for their Church and their community, only to find acts of vandalism - time the authorities dealt out more severe punishment, because so far, their efforts are useless.
Even if the Church concerned secured a new cross, how long before this one goes the same way as the first - CCTV is a must, get the louts on camera and then hit them where or how it hurts the most. No point taking them to Church, they are well past any help.
It's all about respect - or rather lack of. Everyday we read about acts of vandalism, and it doesn't get any better. To steal a cross is the work of nasty individual(s) - if someone stole or damaged any of THEIR property, the outcry would ring loud and clear. There are a lot of decent people who work hard for their Church and their community, only to find acts of vandalism - time the authorities dealt out more severe punishment, because so far, their efforts are useless. Even if the Church concerned secured a new cross, how long before this one goes the same way as the first - CCTV is a must, get the louts on camera and then hit them where or how it hurts the most. No point taking them to Church, they are well past any help. norah bhatty

1:50pm Sat 10 Nov 12

Major Tom says...

I agree norah, CCTV. Even smartwater should be used.
I agree norah, CCTV. Even smartwater should be used. Major Tom

8:56am Sun 11 Nov 12

halfhearted says...

eco/pendle wrote:
reading through these comments i am disgusted that these idiots who write this immature rubbish can actualy put words together.your very childish pathetic and the lowest of the low no wonder lancashire is seen by others as the pits your probably sat there dossing and to idle to work nothing else to do and spitting your dummies out, if you have not got the brain cells to or respect dont join in.hope the police who are continualy chasing scum catch them and make them pay for the damage and then sent down. disgusted that i am blackburn born and bred
What are you trying to say ?
Many people are expressing their opinion just like yourself. Why is it immature rubbish ?
The Police Inspector has not described the incident as Criminal Damage,why not ? Because thats what it is.
If the offence has been committed by the Asian youth why has it not been classed as racially motivated ? If it was the other way round it would be.

If the Police do trace those responsible they can't make them pay for the damage,they may plead to them in order that they pay,only a Court can order that the offenders pay,and if that be the case they cannot be locked away.

By the way,I'm not a dosser who is too idle to work. Like you I'm Blackburn born and bred and no longer live in the town.

Lancashie,like many parts of the Country have issues,and these issues have to be addressed. Its no use acting like an ostrich. This will not cure the problems.
[quote][p][bold]eco/pendle[/bold] wrote: reading through these comments i am disgusted that these idiots who write this immature rubbish can actualy put words together.your very childish pathetic and the lowest of the low no wonder lancashire is seen by others as the pits your probably sat there dossing and to idle to work nothing else to do and spitting your dummies out, if you have not got the brain cells to or respect dont join in.hope the police who are continualy chasing scum catch them and make them pay for the damage and then sent down. disgusted that i am blackburn born and bred[/p][/quote]What are you trying to say ? Many people are expressing their opinion just like yourself. Why is it immature rubbish ? The Police Inspector has not described the incident as Criminal Damage,why not ? Because thats what it is. If the offence has been committed by the Asian youth why has it not been classed as racially motivated ? If it was the other way round it would be. If the Police do trace those responsible they can't make them pay for the damage,they may plead to them in order that they pay,only a Court can order that the offenders pay,and if that be the case they cannot be locked away. By the way,I'm not a dosser who is too idle to work. Like you I'm Blackburn born and bred and no longer live in the town. Lancashie,like many parts of the Country have issues,and these issues have to be addressed. Its no use acting like an ostrich. This will not cure the problems. halfhearted

11:36am Sun 11 Nov 12

M Foster says...

norah bhatty wrote:
It's all about respect - or rather lack of. Everyday we read about acts of vandalism, and it doesn't get any better.
To steal a cross is the work of nasty individual(s) - if someone stole or damaged any of THEIR property, the outcry would ring loud and clear.
There are a lot of decent people who work hard for their Church and their community, only to find acts of vandalism - time the authorities dealt out more severe punishment, because so far, their efforts are useless.
Even if the Church concerned secured a new cross, how long before this one goes the same way as the first - CCTV is a must, get the louts on camera and then hit them where or how it hurts the most. No point taking them to Church, they are well past any help.
I fully understand why you and others clammer for more CCTV everywhere to try and make up for not having more of a police presence/deterrent on the streets but I do not think this is the answer. For a start, how many such clips from a crime scene CCTV (Crimewatch, news, etc,) where criminals just cannot be identified as their heads and faces are covered by hoods or masks.

In my youth, young males did not go round wearing such things and would have stood out like a sore thumb if they had. Now it is everyday attire, the desired (fashion?) choice of youth belonging to every shade of ethnic group which just happens to come in handy if, being street-wise, they want to engage in some illegal activity. I think that CCTV is a poor and expensive alternative to proper crime prevention.

To me, an even stronger case against CCTV is the loss of personal freedom in having Big Brother (the State) and private companies being able to track our everyday movements whenever we leave our house. "What have you got to fear if you are innocent?" some misguided people may ask to which I would answer "Everything, including your freedom!"

The authorities are exerting ever increasing control on all our everyday lives from jailing a mother for smacking her child to people jailed for just typing words in a comment on Twitter/Facebook. So-called `justice' is being metered out on the hoof, especially, now, the all-embracing `Hate Speech'. People are being jailed by secret, illegal `kangaroo' courts without recourse to a proper defence representation or even their rights under Common Law/Magna Carta to be tried by a jury of their fellow peers.

Our car trips can be tracked with numberplate recognition systems and emails/phone calls/internet activity monitored. We even have CCTV in some public toilets, for goodness sake. There are many more example to be found of the states' intrusiveness if you look. How long before we are told we need them in our homes to combat crime and terrorism, etc?

To me, this is a dangerous, slippery road to go down and the price we will all pay in becoming serfs, for little return in reduced crime prevention, is too high. Half of the country watching the other half smacks of the old, discredited USSR era.
[quote][p][bold]norah bhatty[/bold] wrote: It's all about respect - or rather lack of. Everyday we read about acts of vandalism, and it doesn't get any better. To steal a cross is the work of nasty individual(s) - if someone stole or damaged any of THEIR property, the outcry would ring loud and clear. There are a lot of decent people who work hard for their Church and their community, only to find acts of vandalism - time the authorities dealt out more severe punishment, because so far, their efforts are useless. Even if the Church concerned secured a new cross, how long before this one goes the same way as the first - CCTV is a must, get the louts on camera and then hit them where or how it hurts the most. No point taking them to Church, they are well past any help.[/p][/quote]I fully understand why you and others clammer for more CCTV everywhere to try and make up for not having more of a police presence/deterrent on the streets but I do not think this is the answer. For a start, how many such clips from a crime scene CCTV (Crimewatch, news, etc,) where criminals just cannot be identified as their heads and faces are covered by hoods or masks. In my youth, young males did not go round wearing such things and would have stood out like a sore thumb if they had. Now it is everyday attire, the desired (fashion?) choice of youth belonging to every shade of ethnic group which just happens to come in handy if, being street-wise, they want to engage in some illegal activity. I think that CCTV is a poor and expensive alternative to proper crime prevention. To me, an even stronger case against CCTV is the loss of personal freedom in having Big Brother (the State) and private companies being able to track our everyday movements whenever we leave our house. "What have you got to fear if you are innocent?" some misguided people may ask to which I would answer "Everything, including your freedom!" The authorities are exerting ever increasing control on all our everyday lives from jailing a mother for smacking her child to people jailed for just typing words in a comment on Twitter/Facebook. So-called `justice' is being metered out on the hoof, especially, now, the all-embracing `Hate Speech'. People are being jailed by secret, illegal `kangaroo' courts without recourse to a proper defence representation or even their rights under Common Law/Magna Carta to be tried by a jury of their fellow peers. Our car trips can be tracked with numberplate recognition systems and emails/phone calls/internet activity monitored. We even have CCTV in some public toilets, for goodness sake. There are many more example to be found of the states' intrusiveness if you look. How long before we are told we need them in our homes to combat crime and terrorism, etc? To me, this is a dangerous, slippery road to go down and the price we will all pay in becoming serfs, for little return in reduced crime prevention, is too high. Half of the country watching the other half smacks of the old, discredited USSR era. M Foster

4:12pm Sun 11 Nov 12

Rimbus says...

abdullah wrote:
Has the Kkk made an appearance in Blackburn,they sure love burning those crosses.
I can think of something else they love burning as well! You cretin.
[quote][p][bold]abdullah[/bold] wrote: Has the Kkk made an appearance in Blackburn,they sure love burning those crosses.[/p][/quote]I can think of something else they love burning as well! You cretin. Rimbus

7:36pm Mon 12 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

jennyspain wrote:
wasnt racially or religiously motivated in little harwood????
It's not in Little Garwood, but in Larkhill, a predominantly white neighbourhood!
[quote][p][bold]jennyspain[/bold] wrote: wasnt racially or religiously motivated in little harwood????[/p][/quote]It's not in Little Garwood, but in Larkhill, a predominantly white neighbourhood! sen c ble

7:38pm Mon 12 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

shytalk wrote:
If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.
What makes you comment in the way you do, when the yobs are NOT asian?
[quote][p][bold]shytalk[/bold] wrote: If it had of been a mosk the culprits would be serving life sentences by now.[/p][/quote]What makes you comment in the way you do, when the yobs are NOT asian? sen c ble

10:31pm Mon 12 Nov 12

abdullah says...

Rimmer please do explain what else the Kkk like burning too besides the cross?
Rimmer please do explain what else the Kkk like burning too besides the cross? abdullah

11:42am Tue 13 Nov 12

sen c ble says...

abdullah wrote:
Rimmer please do explain what else the Kkk like burning too besides the cross?
Catholics!
[quote][p][bold]abdullah[/bold] wrote: Rimmer please do explain what else the Kkk like burning too besides the cross?[/p][/quote]Catholics! sen c ble

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